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Thread: Steelboats

  1. #1261
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    Dec 2010
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    Your suggestion being that, I should have spent my life working for money I don't need, to buy things I don't need ,to impress people I don't like, increasing my environmental impact exponentially, and, doing like so many, preaching against environmental destruction, to be less hippocritical , like you?
    Ya sure ! Sounds like more fun that cruising full time!
    You should be spending your time on a "Better homes and gardens"site instead of here, where people dream of the cruising life, if you hate the idea of the cruising life so much.

    I always got a kick out of programs to junk old cars and replace them with more "environmentally friendly" new ones, to reduce pollution, completely ignoring the pollution involved in building so many new cars.
    Once one moves aboard , the reduction in environmental impact, from that point on, adds up to exponentially more than that caused by the building of the boat, including the manufacture of the materials
    Many look forward to not needing a car any more, which drastically reduces their environmental foot print even further.
    How many cars have you gone thru in a lifetime? How much steel manufacturing did that involve? More than one boat? How much fossil fuel does your lifestyle use in a month? And you call me a hippocrite?
    I have never owned a car; never wanted to.
    Population? I haven't added a single person to the worlds population ( not that I'm aware of)
    My post was NOT any sort of suggestion Brent, it was a factual statement of how I-and no doubt others-see you.

    If you truly believed in your lifestyle choice, you would be designing and making wooden boats.

    After all, Slocum did it after shipwreck in South America, and Spray sounds like it was almost a new ship.

    It is a waste of time dealing with you as you are incapable of seeing any other view or opinion as having any value whatsoever.

    As a critic on SA said about you, and you have just proved it for the fifth time " He wears you down with mind numbing repetition! "

    He certainly got that bit right.........................................

  2. #1262
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
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    Eastern Med ish
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    3,249

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    My post was NOT any sort of suggestion Brent, it was a factual statement of how I-and no doubt others-see you.

    If you truly believed in your lifestyle choice, you would be designing and making wooden boats.

    After all, Slocum did it after shipwreck in South America, and Spray sounds like it was almost a new ship.

    It is a waste of time dealing with you as you are incapable of seeing any other view or opinion as having any value whatsoever.

    As a critic on SA said about you, and you have just proved it for the fifth time " He wears you down with mind numbing repetition! "

    He certainly got that bit right.........................................
    You keep feeding him
    never confuse education with intelligence
    Sailing the Aegean

  3. #1263
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    Farnham, Surrey
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    20,929

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    160 miles a day is no raft. 15 days to Hawaii is no raft. 18 days from Hawaii to BC is no raft .
    In terms of trying to provide a killer argument, your statements are meaningless nonsense and I'll show you why.

    Lots of boats sail 160 miles a day. I've done the thick end of 200 miles in a day in several boats when on ocean passage. So what... It just shows that we were in reasonable sailing conditions in reasonably well found boats with reasonable rags and a half decent crew.

    I know of at least two Sigma 33's who have sailed across the Atlantic in 14 days. Doesn't prove a thing. (By most people's reckoning Sigma 33's are delightful boats to sail that are well mannered and reasonably quick for a 32'6 boat. I'd certainly race one against a 36' BS design and put heavy money on winning easily...)

    You keep quoting 350,000 miles of mainly trouble free cruising. (Sometimes you say trouble free and sometimes you say 'mainly trouble free or words to that effect so I'm not sure which is true?) I suggest that composite boats have accrued MILLIONS of miles mostly trouble free. So what? Neither statement proves anything, as has been pointed out before, but you keep coming back to old tired and disproven arguments.

    Might I humbly suggest that the major problem is your inability to see any point of view except your own. Yachts are ALWAYS a compromise and building them from steel forces several compromises on the end product. Add the origami design and that forces shape constraints on the end product as well. Steel can be a good choice, but it's not a panacea. People make other legitimate choices to sail composite boats and contrary to your opinion, they're not stupid or insane to go to sea in them.
    Semper aliud

  4. #1264
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    Oct 2010
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    1,299

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    My post was NOT any sort of suggestion Brent, it was a factual statement of how I-and no doubt others-see you.

    If you truly believed in your lifestyle choice, you would be designing and making wooden boats.

    After all, Slocum did it after shipwreck in South America, and Spray sounds like it was almost a new ship.

    It is a waste of time dealing with you as you are incapable of seeing any other view or opinion as having any value whatsoever.

    As a critic on SA said about you, and you have just proved it for the fifth time " He wears you down with mind numbing repetition! "

    He certainly got that bit right.........................................
    It is my critics, who keep repeating the same questions and accusations, with mind numbing repetition , to which the answers don't change. Einstien said the definition of insanity is repeating the same experiment, over and over ,hoping for a different result, the way they keep expecting different answers to their same questions and accusations.

    You remind me of the first origami boat I built, in a shop where a British, highly qualified wooden boat builder was building himself a 30 foot Harrison Bulter design in wood. He had been about a year on the project, and was just beginning to plank the frame work .
    It took me 21 days to tack together the hull, decks, twin keels, rudder, skeg, cabin ,cockpit, bow roller, handrails, lifelines hatches, mooring bits , cleats ,in effect, all the steel work on the boat I was building . In that time, he got a bit more planking done .None of my clients could afford to pay for as many man hours it would take to do what he was doing, the antithesis of the lifestyle I am trying to help people live . Those who do things that way, seem far older than the 23 year old I was, heading for the south seas in my first boat.
    He eventually finished his wooden boat. Then, he spoke to me about building him a steel one, as he since had kids to worry about the safety of.
    While teaching in his wooden boat building school, he invited me to talk to his wooden boat building class. I sold every one of the big pile of books I brought ,very quickly, to his students.
    He eventually sailed his wooden boat to New Zealand, where, unsure of her ability to take the pounding for the return trip, he shipped her home to BC on a freighter . When wood was the only option, crossing oceans in a small boat, was considered a daredevil stunt, worth writing a book about. Many did , about a single crossing.
    No, I have never had any interest in burdening people with the huge expense ,and risks of a wooden boat. That is the antithesis of simple, affordable , practical cruising .
    As with all my critics , what you advocate amounts to putting disinformation road blocks in front of any aspiring cruisers on a low income ,designed to hinder their ability to escape the treadmill early ,and maximize their cruising time in far greater safety .

    All my critics advocate seeking out far more complex , expensive and less reliable ways of doing things ,and attack and ridicule any suggestion of less expensive, simpler, and proven over decades, and hundreds of thousands of miles of well proven reliability. Those who sell them far more complex and less reliable gear, have a big financial stake in keeping people in marinas, paying for their junk .
    They outnumber me, by a wide margin .I expect they, and those who try to justify such screwups on their own part ,make up the bulk of my critics, definitly not a good source of advice, for anyone aspiring to go cruising, far more safely , on a limited budget.
    Last edited by Brent Swain; 24-05-19 at 23:15.

  5. #1265
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    Oct 2010
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    Like I keep saying, if a Brent Swain steel boat is so good-and can run off 160 nm days-why have we not all got one?
    Because I have never felt like building more than one or two a year.
    Once built 5 in one year . Was bagged out . Never again. Friends I trained, built even more that year.
    Why don't more adopt my methods?
    They would rather enviously attack, than emulate, especially when they cant claim credit for the ideas.
    "An Expert is someone who opposes new ideas , as, when new ideas are accepted, they stop being experts."
    Harry Trueman!
    For someone who has spent a lifetime doing things one way, my methods make what he has learned, irrelevant. Of course he will defensively oppose, attack and ridicule them , for undermining his 'Expertise!"
    I keep telling envious people;
    "Don't envy ,emulate!"

  6. #1266
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    Your reply shows clearly the limitations and shallowness of your intellect.....
    Just blindly parroting what everyone else does and thinks, as you advocate , doesn't amount to
    "Intellect!"

  7. #1267
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    Oct 2010
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Wansworth View Post
    I had a steel hull and deck built which I fitted out.Fairly inexpensive way to get afloat but the hull. And deck are only 25% of the whole thing still if non yacht type materials used in interior fit out and. A keen eye kept on boat jumbles a proper seaworthy boat can be got float.Fertan was an initial error and so where built in tanks.Interior treated with car underbody stuff that worked and interior rust was not a problem.Decide what standard you want to achieve the less yacht finish the cheaper and quicker.Sold the boat and itís still going 30 yeRs on.
    "Yacht type" materials usually mean teak ,giving you a cave like interior,or a deck on which you cant see what's going on under the teak, until it becomes a major problem , as with any other wood on the outside of a boat .
    "Yacht type" usually means a drastic reduction in practicality and function, at a far greater cost.
    "Industrial" is far better for a long term cruising boat.

  8. #1268
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    Oct 2010
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by john_morris_uk View Post
    Exactly the conclusion that I have come to.

    I get a tiny bit anxious sometimes about the wide eyed wannabes who have dreams being sold down the river. I'm all for dreams and encouraging sailing away on the cheap, but I worry about some who shouldn't be taken in by anything approaching charlatanesqueness. (Good word huh?)
    A much higher percentage of brentboats make it to Southern climes, or almost full time cruising, with their original owners, than almost all other types of boats.

  9. #1269
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wales
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    405

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Oh for the... give it a rest Brent, you're not helping. Let some other advocate of Steel Boats take up the mantel... I assume there are others...?

    Some of us are relatively interested, but your anecdotal evidence/my boats are best/I did this that the other and oh look how much I got paid... just makes you look like a twit who hasn't gotten the first clue about anything (I'm starting to think you don't actually build boats, you're just making it up). Like that younger brother who wants to be in the in-crowd. Present the facts, let us make up our own minds, if needs must then provide counter evidence... preferably in Vancouver format with an ISBN number.

  10. #1270
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    Apr 2019
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    Wales
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    405

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    A much higher percentage of brentboats make it to Southern climes, or almost full time cruising, with their original owners, than almost all other types of boats.
    Do you have any evidence whatsoever to back up this wild claim?

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