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Thread: Steelboats

  1. #1421
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    1,365

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by lpdsn View Post
    2/3rds of the way round the world? Last year BC was stretched all the way down to Chile. Then somebody let go one end.

    Maybe you're more famous than you know. World famous even, in BC.

    Perhaps they'll build a statue to you. Of course with all the local scrap steel used up for your signature designs, they'd have to build it in fibre-glass.
    Check the BC charts for Hakai Pass to Higgens Pass. 811 islands in 35 miles . Totals up to a lot of coastline if you stretch it all out ,a tiny fraction of the BC coastal total.

  2. #1422
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    Farnham, Surrey
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    21,407

    Default Re: Steelboats

    A while ago I was mildly irritated by Brent’s single mindedness and his one dimensional answers. I’m getting to be relaxed about them now as I’m more and more confident that most anyone dreaming of adopting a cruising lifestyle will see through his arguments for what they are. In reality, they’re the occasional bit of inspiration or good idea mixed in with a lot of potentially dangerous nonsense.
    Semper aliud

  3. #1423
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    Jul 2002
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    Farnham, Surrey
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    21,407

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    Over 40 years of great passage times ,on all points of sail, steered with the simplest of wind vanes , over 350,000 miles of ocean cruising, including surviving serious groundings in big surf, for up to weeks at a time, pounding on both sand and coral, with zero serious structural damage, IS a far better guarantee that it IS a good one, than a charlatan armchair expert with zero such experience, scribbling on paper, for $175 an hour.

    There is no safer boat to cruise in ,than one with that kind of track record ,over decades.
    Change the record Brent. 350,000 miles is a drop in the ocean compared with many other boats.

    The rest of your ‘supporting evidence’ has been discredited several times over.
    Semper aliud

  4. #1424
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    1,365

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Someone here was singing the praise of "production boats, made in a commercial shop, with professional builders, as superior to back yard boats.
    I have worked on some of them.,When I got back from Tahiti in 78, I worked on a Bayliner. The skipper had passed out drunk, and bounced off some cliffs. The hull was only attached to the deck with a pop rivet every three feet, nothing more. The rest of the boat was put together in a similar manner. No intelligent back yard builder would do anything so sleazy, risking his life and that of his crew, in the process . They remain in business to this day,
    A friend is stripping and abandoning her Coronado 25. Plywood core decks, a great strength to the numbers crunching engineers, impressive numbers on stiffness, are totally rotted out .Like several others around here, she had to completely rebuild the "Professionally" done hull- deck joint. When the "Professional experts " wanted to attach interior, they simply drilled thru the hull and drove a screw thru, then puttied over the screw head on the outside, to hide it. They remained in business a long time, selling many such boats. The chain plates were bolted to the rotted out bulkheads , no backup plates of any kind. I have seen those pull out of new bulkhead on a Pacific 30.
    The support for the deck stepped mast was grossly inadequate , buckling under sail.
    There is another "Production, professionally built" Columbia in the bay, with a stanchion pulled completely out . No backup plate for the bases, only tiny washers, not much wider than the nuts.
    "Production, professionally built "Catalinas and Cals have no backup plates of any kind under their cleats, or any other deck hardware. I doubt many "Professionally Built, production boats " do.
    Last edited by Brent Swain; 05-09-19 at 18:40.

  5. #1425
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    Farnham, Surrey
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    21,407

    Default Re: Steelboats

    You doubt wrong Brent.

    And I’ve seen and sailed some dogs of home finished boats and some that were built with skill and care.

    I am bemused by how you can’t see that your constant harping on about the poor quality of professional yacht design and manufacturers doesn’t reflect well on you.
    Semper aliud

  6. #1426
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Eastern Med ish
    Posts
    3,349

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by john_morris_uk View Post
    You doubt wrong Brent.

    And I’ve seen and sailed some dogs of home finished boats and some that were built with skill and care.

    I am bemused by how you can’t see that your constant harping on about the poor quality of professional yacht design and manufacturers doesn’t reflect well on you.
    I think you need to accept that people don't believe the same things as you. Why should you criticise anyone for believing in themselves and what they think ? We are all grown up and can make up our own minds without your intervention.
    never confuse education with intelligence
    Sailing the Aegean

  7. #1427
    Join Date
    Apr 2019
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    931

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    Someone here was singing the praise of "production boats, made in a commercial shop, with professional builders, as superior to back yard boats.
    I have worked on some of them.,When I got back from Tahiti in 78, I worked on a Bayliner. The skipper had passed out drunk, and bounced off some cliffs. The hull was only attached to the deck with a pop rivet every three feet, nothing more. The rest of the boat was put together in a similar manner. No intelligent back yard builder would do anything so sleazy, risking his life and that of his crew, in the process . They remain in business to this day,
    A friend is stripping and abandoning her Coronado 25. Plywood core decks, a great strength to the numbers crunching engineers, impressive numbers on stiffness, are totally rotted out .Like several others around here, she had to completely rebuild the "Professionally" done hull- deck joint. When the "Professional experts " wanted to attach interior, they simply drilled thru the hull and drove a screw thru, then puttied over the screw head on the outside, to hide it. They remained in business a long time, selling many such boats. The chain plates were bolted to the rotted out bulkheads , no backup plates of any kind. I have seen those pull out of new bulkhead on a Pacific 30.
    The support for the deck stepped mast was grossly inadequate , buckling under sail.
    There is another "Production, professionally built" Columbia in the bay, with a stanchion pulled completely out . No backup plate for the bases, only tiny washers, not much wider than the nuts.
    "Production, professionally built "Catalinas and Cals have no backup plates of any kind under their cleats, or any other deck hardware. I doubt many "Professionally Built, production boats " do.
    To be fair, I'll sing the praises of a "production anything." This is where that experience comes into play, after finding a design and method that works well, with mere minor tweaks a manufacturer churns out hundreds of the same production (through the use of jigs, revised methodology and safety credentials) with a remarkably low failure ratio compared to the same number being churned out by home builders. A home built boat is a riskier proposition because they are 'unproven', they're often one time things for most.

    As for the hull only being attached with a pop rivet here and there. Most businesses have to adhere to strict regulatory health and safety requirements, not least because if something goes wrong they can be sued to the eyeballs for negligence. However times have significantly changed since 1978 (which is practically victorian times in legal terms).

    It's all well and good criticizing others on their safety records (and I always encourage that as it makes safety go up a notch)... what about your own designs? Have they been safety checked by an independent and reputable such company? More to the point... do steel boats have a greater or lesser safety rating than GRP/Wooden boats?

    I mean, I can think of at least *one* steel boat that didn't fare so well when it was tickled by an iceberg.

  8. #1428
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    Farnham, Surrey
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    21,407

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by rtboss1 View Post
    I think you need to accept that people don't believe the same things as you. Why should you criticise anyone for believing in themselves and what they think ? We are all grown up and can make up our own minds without your intervention.
    I’d like to think that we are all grown up and can make sensible and reasoned choices. Brent’s target sales are to people who wish to drop out of society (and there’s nothing wrong in that) but this very cohort are also potentially going to be sold a false dream in which the potential problems of his designs and construction methods are brushed over. It’s irresponsible to allow his false claims and exaggerations to go unchallenged.
    Last edited by john_morris_uk; 05-09-19 at 20:23.
    Semper aliud

  9. #1429
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    South Oxfordshire, Gosport and Wellington New Zealand.
    Posts
    8,225

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Well Brent, our British pensioner, in her 70's, has just become the oldest sailor to circumnavigate non stop. Well done Jean Socrates!

    Completed yesterday early PM our time.

    In, surprise surprise, what you would describe as a plastic deathtrap.

    Her boat is a quality Scandanavian product, something you are obviously not familiar with as every GRP boat you have experirnce of is crap. I know it is - you keep telling us!

    So, now you might admit that some GRP boats leave their Marina's from time to time and complete arduous voyages. Doing so is not the only preserve of tin boats.

    See what I did there Brent-if you cant beat 'em join 'em!

    You might also admit that some designers of GRP sailboats DO know what they are about and design boats that are fit for the purpose. They dont have soggy cored coachroofs and decks, poor mast support and weak hull/deck joints.

    You appear only to have experience of old GRP clunkers, past their sell by and pretty much used up.

    Because I, and I am pretty sure most others who have taken part in this thread, do not recognise YOUR experience of GRP boats as being the norm.

    Of course there is the odd duff one, the few badly neglected and poorly maintained ones, but, on the whole, the GRP sailboats keep their looks and integrity far better with minimum maintenance than the average steel boat.

    IMHO, of course - and from direct experience of currently owning both types.
    Last edited by rotrax; 08-09-19 at 12:02.

  10. #1430
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Solent
    Posts
    549

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    Because I, and I am pretty sure most others who have taken part in this thread, do not recognise YOUR experience of GRP boats as being the norm.
    This is the crux of the whole debate. Others have different experience from yours and you have not personally experienced the benefits of a steel boat, only the maintenance of an old one.

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