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Thread: Steelboats

  1. #91
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    [QUOTE=Brent Swain;6602607]
    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    The thread on pros and cons of steel boats had a steady stream of it.
    Are you obtuse on purpose BS?

    I was clearly indicating that there is little critisism of dealers, brokers and chandlers on these forums.

    You know, the guys you are always suggesting are liars, crooks and cheats.

    Reading back down the various threads on Steel Yachts, the only one who is critical of these is you. Critisism which we dont have in large measure here in Europe, or on this forum.

  2. #92
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream believer View Post
    So this multi chine boat gets 90 feet of weld both sides . But we have keel, gunwhale etc So somehow I suspect your 180 feet ( 90 ft per side)is a little bit misleading Yes I know you said "chine" but just 3 chine welds is 108 feet per side - 216 feet if it is 36 ft per length. ( not all full length of boat but curved so possibly 36 ft anyway)
    So there seems to be a need for a rethink Brent.
    Then there are the bulkheads, bunks, lockers tanks to weld. The hull is just the smallest part of it. I know, I built a wooden boat & I did that in my joinery works
    Even I know that an origami boat can easily distort if one does not take care to get the hull symmetrical
    You do not just weld 2 bits of steel together. They have to be positioned carefully after being curved to shape, They have to be held in the right planes then tacked together & each half paired. A few mm out & the hull will be a banana. (Still you keep on coming back so perhaps it does not matter if you sail in circles) That takes time. Unless of course one is working in a tent & just wants to bodge something together. If you do not get the hull right the other bits will not fit meaning more cutting and grinding (more time out of that 100 hours)

    Things like deck & cabin take a lot more welding & steel has to be cut & bent. If it is supplied cut to shape then the design of each piece has to be drawn & ( presumably CAD would be best here)sent for cutting.This all takes time & you only have a month because you are off sailing again as you love to remind us so often.
    True if it s a repeat design then that saves time you only have to wait 2 weeks for the steel to arrive- leaving 2 weeks to build the boat!!!!
    If you use a pre cut design from a supplier then the design may well not be yours as you claim.
    If you do design the boat yourself how do you do this when you are sailing? You must have a lovely chart table to set this out on your 36 ft boat to allow you to draw this up whilst you are rolling down wind to your next island.Cannot use a computer as the electrics are not in yet!!!
    As for not putting things like electrics in a boat then one can hardly state that one has built it in a month can one. We have said nothing about engine, gearbox & shaft etc or water system. Do we have windows , hatches & any deck gear such as winches on these boats, Steering gear, rudder, along with attendant shafts etc? Painting, insulation (very important as you have been telling us) Is the owner expected to do those things whilst he is sailing
    Personally I think - As I suspect some others on this forum possibly think- Your assertions about how long it takes to build a boat simply do not add up
    With the laser positioning I describe, it takes minutes to position all 35 tabs it takes to bolt bulkheads to, and half an hour to cut and weld them in. The bunks and counter tops are on longitudinal 2x4s , nailed to the bulkheads in minutes . No need to polish, and embellish the tabs, when they are buried in foam, and never seen again. Your criticism of my times are based on the assumption that I waste time, and clients money on such foolishness.
    Some have made mistakes of inches on origami boats, with no negative consequences .It is that forgiving, far more so than traditional 'Imitation wooden boat building" methods. Friends who have built mass produced stock plastic boats, have said that differences from side to side as much as 3 inches, are common in stock plastic boats.
    All my deck panels are made up on a work bench at waist height ,all beams and longitudinals welded in before it gets installed in the hull, saving a huge amount of time, and most of the overhead fitting, and almost all overhead welding. This can be done on any steel boat, including hulls built the traditional way. I have tacked all the decks on a 36 ,starting from scratch, including all cutting and grinding, in 8 hours. Your questioning of my time is based on the false assumption that I do it the traditional, super inefficient way.
    Cabins, wheelhouses, cockpits, rudder, skegs are all done using origami methods , drastically reducing time. I have put cabins and wheelhouses together in ten hours .Check it out on Alex's video , before commenting on that which you don't understand, or based on false assumptions.
    The list of your false assumptions goes on and on . Isn't it time you checked out the origami boats site, and educated your self on better ways to do things, before you go on making any more false statements, on the assumption that I haven't progressed beyond 1950s building methods.

    My own 31 was launched 30 days after the steel arrived. Anyone who was at Newcastle Marine in Nanaimo in April 1984 can confirm that. She was a bare shell, and I had $40 left. So I pulled together a couple of 36 footers , Moon Raven , for Doug and Judy Vansickle, and Ullr for Dave and Sue Rossi, for cash. Then I detailed my 31 on a beach in ten days, with parts I had made well in advance. Then , ten more days of painting, then spray foam , and rough the interior in , in 3 more days. Ten days of rigging in October, and I was mobile and living aboard. Very basic ,but free.
    Outboard rudder with a tiller on top , eliminates shafts , etc., and drastically simplifies self steering, drastically reducing building time ,as does simplifying the rest of the boat.
    I don't consider waiting for steel to arrive, part of building time, and unloading it takes about 5 minutes.
    I didn't have a computer when I designed my boats, nor did most other designers. Neither Hereschoff, nor Atkins nor Sparkman and Stephens nor Laurent Giles,etc , had computers for their earlier designs.
    Last edited by Brent Swain; 02-12-18 at 23:02.

  3. #93
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    There are some great discussion on steel and aluminium boats on the facebook forums, including the metal boat society , which are far better moderated than 95% of such forums elsewhere.

  4. #94
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    There are some great discussion on steel and aluminium boats on the facebook forums, including the metal boat society , which are far better moderated than 95% of such forums elsewhere.
    Are they more popular than the threads on here, that you seem to need to bump on a regular basis?
    A1Sailor :ThumbsUpSmiley:

  5. #95
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    I didn't have a computer when I designed my boats, nor did most other designers. Neither Hereschoff, nor Atkins nor Sparkman and Stephens nor Laurent Giles,etc , had computers for their earlier designs.

    For once, you are correct. Computers as we know them today did not exist when the designers you mention were designing their classics.


    But, unlike you, they were engineers and understood applied loads and structural design. With this understanding and a drawing board and slide rule they were kings of their time.


    Will the name Brent Swain ever be heard in a conversation alongside the illustrious names you mention?


    I somehow doubt it....

  6. #96
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by A1Sailor View Post
    Are they more popular than the threads on here, that you seem to need to bump on a regular basis?
    Yes, exponentially so , on the subject of metal boats, with far more exchange of info on metal boats, uninterrupted by jeering trolls, trying to sabotage exchange of metal boat info. Any posts who's only purpose is to jeer and interrupt the exchange if info, get quickly deleted there. Most of those posting there, have actual hands on, steel or aluminium boat experience, unlike many sites, where almost all the posts are from people with zero such experience, who are simply there to jeer , or post old wives tales .

  7. #97
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    For once, you are correct. Computers as we know them today did not exist when the designers you mention were designing their classics.


    But, unlike you, they were engineers and understood applied loads and structural design. With this understanding and a drawing board and slide rule they were kings of their time.


    Will the name Brent Swain ever be heard in a conversation alongside the illustrious names you mention?


    I somehow doubt it...…………………………….
    No better testing of structural loads and adequacy than over 385,000 miles of offshore cruising, with zero serious structural failure of any kind. I don't think any of their boats would survive the tests mine have been thru.

    Bernie Made Off was once considered "Ilustrious!"
    Last edited by Brent Swain; 04-12-18 at 00:44.

  8. #98
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    No better testing of structural loads and adequacy than over 385,000 miles of offshore cruising, with zero serious structural failure of any kind. I don't think any of their boats would survive the tests mine have been thru.

    Bernie Made Off was once considered "Ilustrious!"
    We are off again!

    Yawn......

  9. #99
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    Yes, exponentially so , on the subject of metal boats, with far more exchange of info on metal boats, uninterrupted by jeering trolls, trying to sabotage exchange of metal boat info. Any posts who's only purpose is to jeer and interrupt the exchange if info, get quickly deleted there. Most of those posting there, have actual hands on, steel or aluminium boat experience, unlike many sites, where almost all the posts are from people with zero such experience, who are simply there to jeer , or post old wives tales .
    Then perhaps one might suggest that is the place to be -- not here
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

  10. #100
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    There are some great discussion on steel and aluminium boats on the facebook forums, including the metal boat society , which are far better moderated than 95% of such forums elsewhere.
    As one of the moderators of these forums, I'm interested to know how you quantify 'much better'. How are you measuring or assessing the moderation?
    Semper aliud

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