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Thread: Steelboats

  1. #11
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    The difference between steel boats and GRP is they don't turn into wind in a gust, they don't broach and don't surf which is why we bought one for long distance sailing.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by KellysEye View Post
    The difference between steel boats and GRP is they don't turn into wind in a gust, they don't broach and don't surf which is why we bought one for long distance sailing.
    That's a function of design - not the material they are made of.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    As I have pointed out many times, which you steadfastly refuse to read, plastic is better, for most people, who leave their boats neglected in marinas 95%of the time. For a boat in full time use , in rugged conditions steel is less maintenance and far safer ,as nothing breaks loose nor leaks when welded down. Maintenance liability is only a problem when you do things wrong.
    Get it right and, for full time use, steel will be less maintenance, especially of you cruise in areas of uncharted rocks, ice, and big logs.
    No material is immune to screwups. A plastic boat tied to my mooring has 4 big holes in the deck, where the bow pulpit is bolted down. It looks like 1/16th inch thick plastic .Others have rotted out balsa cores. So much for your theory about plastic being immune to screwups!
    The southern ocean, Cape Horn , the western Pacific in hurricane season, and the Aleutians being "Peaceful", compared to the Atlantic ? Give your head a shake!
    One of my 36 footers just came back from rounding the Horn . 35 knot winds are almost steady down there.


    And a steel boat in Evans bay marina is rusting to bits. It wont be restored, it is too far gone.

    Neglected boats die, Brent, made from all sorts of materials.

    You only have direct experience of your sailing area, with relativly few boats in use, and a short season. You perhaps dont realise just how many yachts-GRP yachts at that-are in use 12 months of the year in the UK. Sail Training vessels with students doing RYA courses are going 24/7/365 round here-and, AFAIK, all use GRP boats.

    The winds in Portsmouth Harbour last Thursday were 32 knots, higher in the Solent and at sea. Not uncommon here either.

    Look, mark and inwardly digest what I said earlier:- " For most leisure boaters, steel is a maintenance liability. "

    It specificaly targets leisure boaters. Not full time livaboards and long term cruisers.

    A steel boat left tied up in a Marina for a long period will fare far worse in my experience than a GRP one.

    As the really rusty one in Evans Bay Marina clearly shows, and the several I spotted recently in Portsmouth Harbour. Out of 12, 4 were really bad, bad enough for me to suggest they have little future as leisure vessels.

    As I have told you before, I own a steel boat and a GRP boat. I speak with direct experience. I know the benifits and the shortcomings of both.

    What this experience has taught me is that in NZ where I keep the steel boat, it is very suitable for the conditions encountered there. Strong, basic, and simple. By comparison, little infrastructure for leisure boating and repair.

    However, it would not be as suitable for the sailing I do in and around the UK and Europe. For many reasons.

    So, lets agree, its horses for courses. You are convinced that your choice of material and build method is best-for your specific use.

    I am convinced that GRP is a far better material for most LEISURE boaters. It is better for their specific use.

    It may mean that Marina's are full of GRP boats that dont go far. So what. That is not your problem in any way, is it?

    I, and many other contributors on here are aware that more GRP boats circumnavigate than steel ones.

    So, GRP cant be that bad can it..........................................
    Last edited by rotrax; 30-04-18 at 12:03.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    >The difference between steel boats and GRP is they don't turn into wind in a gust, they don't broach and don't surf which is why we bought one for long distance sailing.

    >>That's a function of design - not the material they are made of.

    No, GRP boats are light displacment boats steel boats are heavy displacement hence the different sailing characteristics

  5. #15
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    Jan 2017
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    Norfolk
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by KellysEye View Post
    . . . No, GRP boats are light displacment boats steel boats are heavy displacement hence the different sailing characteristics
    All heavy displacement boats of any material are heavy displacement.

    Conversely, light displacement boats of any material (and yes, there have been light displacement boats in steel) all have the characteristics of light displacement boats.

    Hydrodynamics doesn't recognise hull material.
    Last edited by Motor_Sailor; 03-05-18 at 10:46. Reason: Complete mistyped word ruined any meaning!

  6. #16
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by KellysEye View Post
    >The difference between steel boats and GRP is they don't turn into wind in a gust, they don't broach and don't surf which is why we bought one for long distance sailing.

    >>That's a function of design - not the material they are made of.

    No, GRP boats are light displacment boats steel boats are heavy displacement hence the different sailing characteristics
    Rubbish. CO32s, Sadlers, Rivals and loads of others are not light displacement boats. There have been Silhouettes built in steel - does that make then heavy displacement? No it doesn't.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Absolutly. Displacement is not heavily influenced by the chosen build material. Design, installed equipment and ballast affects displacement to a much greater degree.

  8. #18
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    Oct 2010
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    855

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    And a steel boat in Evans bay marina is rusting to bits. It wont be restored, it is too far gone.


    You only have direct experience of your sailing area, with relativly few boats in use, and a short season. You perhaps dont realise just how many yachts-GRP yachts at that-are in use 12 months of the year in the UK. Sail Training vessels with students doing RYA courses are going 24/7/365 round here-and, AFAIK, all use GRP boats.

    The winds in Portsmouth Harbour last Thursday were 32 knots, higher in the Solent and at sea. Not uncommon here either.

    More common than Cape Horn area? Ya sure!

    Look, mark and inwardly digest what I said earlier:- " For most leisure boaters, steel is a maintenance liability. "

    As are, as you have pointed out, all neglected boats

    It specificaly targets leisure boaters. Not full time livaboards and long term cruisers.


    Yes, as I have so often stated, plastic is better for marina queens, steel for full time use. We are in agreement there.

    As the really rusty one in Evans Bay Marina clearly shows, and the several I spotted recently in Portsmouth Harbour. Out of 12, 4 were really bad, bad enough for me to suggest they have little future as leisure vessels.

    Our BC beaches are littered with breaking up plastic boats here, including on in a totally sheltered bay, with zero swell, on soft mud, which is breaking up under it's own weight


    What this experience has taught me is that in NZ where I keep the steel boat, it is very suitable for the conditions encountered there. Strong, basic, and simple. By comparison, little infrastructure for leisure boating and repair.

    Do you cruise full time? For how many years?

    So, lets agree, its horses for courses. You are convinced that your choice of material and build method is best-for your specific use.

    I am convinced that GRP is a far better material for most LEISURE boaters. It is better for their specific use.

    Yes, marina queens , for occasional, part time use.

    It may mean that Marina's are full of GRP boats that dont go far. So what. That is not your problem in any way, is it?

    No problem for me. Keeps my anchorages empty. I just like helping those who don't want to live that way . For those who do, thanks for staying out of my favorite anchorages.

    I, and many other contributors on here are aware that more GRP boats circumnavigate than steel ones.
    Because there are more of them, due to more promotion. I have met many of them out there, wishing they had steel boats.

    So, GRP cant be that bad can it..........................................
    You only have direct experience of your sailing area, with relativly few boats in use, and a short season. You perhaps dont realise just how many yachts-GRP yachts at that-are in use 12 months of the year in the UK. Sail Training vessels with students doing RYA courses are going 24/7/365 round here-and, AFAIK, all use GRP boats. (Quote)
    I cruise year round, as do many of my clients ,and have done 9 Pacific crossings, and cruised all the South Pacific islands which interested me . I have lost count of how many of my boats have been built ,but I have put together over 3 dozen of them, as have others . I roughly estimate as many as 200. I have cruised average 11 months a year ,or more ( not a short season) for the last 40 years. Many of my clients do the same. 4 have circumnavigated .We only see a lot of plastic boats leave the marina for 3 months a year around here.
    So much for your "limited ,part time" theory!

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    31,969

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by KellysEye View Post
    >The difference between steel boats and GRP is they don't turn into wind in a gust, they don't broach and don't surf which is why we bought one for long distance sailing.

    >>That's a function of design - not the material they are made of.

    No, GRP boats are light displacment boats steel boats are heavy displacement hence the different sailing characteristics
    You really do seem to have a limited understanding of boat design and construction never mind the factors that affect how a boat behaves. Displacement is a function of hull design, not of material of construction and many heavy displacement boats are GRP. On the other hand many steel boats are also heavy displacement partly because of the weight of the material but mainly because it lends itself to the construction of heavy displacement hull forms, particularly with multiple chines and/or full keels.

    This is little to do with a tendency to round up and broach which is primarily caused by changes in balance of waterline planes from static to heeled and compounded by imbalanced sail plans and loss of rudder control through either too small a rudder or more commonly with wide sterns (which is one of the reasons for unbalanced waterlines) the rudder coming out of the water when heeled.

    Not all lighter displacement boats have a tendency to round up and there are many features of design that can reduce or eliminate rounding up such as chines on the aft waterline, twin rudders, deeper keels and rudders and reductions in headsail overlaps all of which either individually or in combination can reduce angles of heel and minimise the sudden change of balance that causes rounding up.

    So your simplistic statement is founded on a false premise.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    200 eh. Not really a big deal.

    Probably 20,000 GRP boats giving excellent service just in the Solent alone.

    I, and thousands of others use our boats full time. Marina Queens-some might be, but thousands are not. Any week, any month, any year a fellow club member is out and about the South Coast of England in his Westerly Konsort, usually under sail before he leaves the Harbour.

    He must be taking his life in his hands every time he steps aboard his GRP cockleshell.

    He seems happy-he has owned and sailed her for well over 30 years. His previous boat, also GRP, is still in regular use with another club member.

    Debate with you is fruitless. Carry on in your enjoyment of your steel boat, and ignorance of the rest of the sailing world, and I will carry on with my GRP motorsailer.

    There is more to life than steel boats, Brent-I hope one day you realise it................................

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