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Thread: Steelboats

  1. #521
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    1,365

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by bbg View Post
    Good for you.

    Steel rusts. GRP doesn't.

    Get over yourself.
    Plastic breaks when it hits things in the night. Steel dents a bit and stretches ,without holing and sinking.

  2. #522
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
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    21,359

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    Plastic breaks when it hits things in the night. Steel dents a bit and stretches ,without holing and sinking.
    Titanictastic dude.

  3. #523
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
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    On the Celtic Fringe
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    14,336

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    Plastic breaks when it hits things in the night. Steel dents a bit and stretches ,without holing and sinking.
    I am not sure if the Captain, crew and passengers of the Titanic would agree with you.

    See the article below about the quality of steel used on the Titanic, which only hit frozen water, not rock, what is the quality control of your steel?

    https://www.cbc.ca/newsblogs/technol...ulnerable.html
    Cynical Scottish very nearly retired engineer who sails a Gib'Sea 96.

  4. #524
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
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    1,365

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Titanictastic dude.
    There is no comparison between the inertia, and strength to weight ratio of of the titanic, and a small steel boat, Search "Law of mechanical similitude", and educate your self.

  5. #525
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,365

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Costa Vida.jpg
    A couple of 36 footers I built. Costa Vida did the "off the beaten path" route, Cocos ,Pitcairn , Australs Cook islands, Uvea, Marshall Islands, then back to BC.
    Shinola did the milk run , Mexico, French Polynesia,Cook Islands, Fiji New Zealand ,and and back home to BC via Tahiti and Hawaii.
    Pretty crude and " boxy "eh.
    Indistinguishable from a round bilged boat, in the water.
    ZERO filler or fairing compound, of any kind on either boat.
    Last edited by Brent Swain; 16-01-19 at 00:32.

  6. #526
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,365

    Default Re: Steelboats

    knockdown.jpg
    On another site, I loaded this picture in a discussion of offset hatches. I pointed out how this hatch would be under water, had it been offset.
    A "World famous" designer from Washington state US ,said it would not be under water, if it had been a foot off the centreline, to leeward, and ridiculed my suggestion that it would be, as did his groupies .He designs boats with off set hatches, and charges $175 an hour for such "Expert" judgement.
    He calls this type of judgement "Sound engineering,"while attacking any more logical responses from me.
    One couldn't do much worse, using one's own judgement.And you say we should leave such decisions to "Experts "like him?
    He has used the term "Cosmic Karma ' to describe what he relies on.
    Last edited by Brent Swain; 16-01-19 at 00:48.

  7. #527
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,550

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    knockdown.jpg
    On another site, I loaded this picture in a discussion of offset hatches. I pointed out how this hatch would be under water, had it been offset.
    A "World famous" designer from Washington state US ,said it would not be under water, if it had been a foot off the centreline, to leeward, and ridiculed my suggestion that it would be, as did his groupies .He designs boats with off set hatches, and charges $175 an hour for such "Expert" judgement.
    He calls this type of judgement "Sound engineering,"while attacking any more logical responses from me.
    One couldn't do much worse, using one's own judgement.And you say we should leave such decisions to "Experts "like him?
    He has used the term "Cosmic Karma ' to describe what he relies on.
    Hi Brent,
    As you know I think you make many good points re steel. Though having raced boats for a lifetime I also know that top designers are unlikely to make such basic errors in their buoyancy calculations. Looking at that picture - the waves make it hard to be sure - but perhaps the designer was just factually pointing out that the hatch/companionway? appears to be still about 12' from the water?

    Following this point for a moment: offshore race designs (yes plastic ) must comply with strict stability requirements (AVS, STIXX, etc.), must possibly include multiple full-seal watertight bulkheads, and far-offshore races vessels must increasingly demonstrate an actual capsize recovery after a crane inverts the boat.

    I fully get the importance of empirical field testing, and as stated your track record is impressive, but do you do any formal calcs re stability, downflooding angle, righting moment, etc.?

  8. #528
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Farnham, Surrey
    Posts
    21,407

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    Hi Brent,
    As you know I think you make many good points re steel. Though having raced boats for a lifetime I also know that top designers are unlikely to make such basic errors in their buoyancy calculations. Looking at that picture - the waves make it hard to be sure - but perhaps the designer was just factually pointing out that the hatch/companionway? appears to be still about 12' from the water?

    Following this point for a moment: offshore race designs (yes plastic ) must comply with strict stability requirements (AVS, STIXX, etc.), must possibly include multiple full-seal watertight bulkheads, and far-offshore races vessels must increasingly demonstrate an actual capsize recovery after a crane inverts the boat.

    I fully get the importance of empirical field testing, and as stated your track record is impressive, but do you do any formal calcs re stability, downflooding angle, righting moment, etc.?
    I think you'll find the answer is no.

    I offered to run a set of Brent's drawings past a friend who is a Naval Architect and well versed in these things. Brent won't supply the calculations and can't (or won't) supply the details sufficient to allow calculations to take place.

    My suspicion is that Brent works on the old adage of 'if it looks right, it must be right' rather than actually calculating anything much. He then belittles designers who actually know what they are talking about in these matters and cites the fact that they disagree with him as an example of how they ought not to be taken seriously.
    Semper aliud

  9. #529
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Celtic Fringe
    Posts
    14,336

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    I fully get the importance of empirical field testing, and as stated your track record is impressive, but do you do any formal calcs re stability, downflooding angle, righting moment, etc.?
    I've asked about his quality control of his steel supply, given the evidence of the Titanic that I kindly linked to for him. Still waiting an answer.
    Cynical Scottish very nearly retired engineer who sails a Gib'Sea 96.

  10. #530
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    S.W. France
    Posts
    7,706

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by john_morris_uk View Post
    I think you'll find the answer is no.

    I offered to run a set of Brent's drawings past a friend who is a Naval Architect and well versed in these things. Brent won't supply the calculations and can't (or won't) supply the details sufficient to allow calculations to take place.

    My suspicion is that Brent works on the old adage of 'if it looks right, it must be right' rather than actually calculating anything much. He then belittles designers who actually know what they are talking about in these matters and cites the fact that they disagree with him as an example of how they ought not to be taken seriously.
    Elswhere, several designers offered to help Brent, including the one he most runs down. Wasted their time, as he knows more than they do. He never aswers any questions on calculations, so one draws one's own conclusions.

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