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Thread: Steelboats

  1. #51
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    855

    Default Re: Steelboats

    A "straw man" argument is where you pick a point which no one is making ,then argue against it, to convince yourself that you have won the argument ( which no one has been making.) I have never said that everyone should adopt my lifestyle, and no one should want or have or want a marina queen , just that my points and posts are for those who don't want that kind of life style. The straw man arguments assume that everyone should want only that kind of lifestyle. They assume that no one should have info on alternatives.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Scotland.
    Posts
    13,270

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Holy shit to hell in a hand cart. It didn't take long for the punch up to start.
    "'...contradictions .... are deliberate exercises in doublethink." Orwell from 1984

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Farnham, Surrey
    Posts
    20,359

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    A "straw man" argument is where you pick a point which no one is making ,then argue against it, to convince yourself that you have won the argument ( which no one has been making.) I have never said that everyone should adopt my lifestyle, and no one should want or have or want a marina queen , just that my points and posts are for those who don't want that kind of life style. The straw man arguments assume that everyone should want only that kind of lifestyle. They assume that no one should have info on alternatives.
    You’d gain more respect if you stopped using derisory or snide phrases such as ‘marina queen’.

    Out of interest, I was at a YC dinner sitting with this man last Friday: https://oceancruisingclub.org/prizew...8/Bill-McLaren

    He and his wife only cruise high latitudes. (N and S) and he was Commodore of the Ocean Cruising Club. He was telling me of his sailing around S America and the Falklands and Greenland. His chosen boat for this extreme sailing off the beaten track? A Bowman 40 GRP boat. Bill’s ‘off the beaten track credentials’ are impeccable and trump almost any other sailor in the world in cruising terms.

    I’d be tempted by a Bowman 40’ myself if we had to change but there’s a lot of emotional energy in our old (very solid) Westerly GRP boat for us to jump horses now.
    Last edited by john_morris_uk; 30-10-18 at 07:20.
    Semper aliud

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Rockall
    Posts
    28,197

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Here's the Tin Man:

    and a thumbnail version for those who wish to use it as an Avatar.
    TinMan.jpg

    I'll see if I can find a straw man image.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    269

    Default Re: Steelboats

    You can always tell when it's Halloween: long-dead threads come back to life and grizzled ghouls, who prove their boats, if not their navigation skills, by bashing them against reefs and beaches, start howling that all who set to sea in anything less than their perfect vessel will be lost without hope. As the wind rises, desperate voices in the rigging start screaming "marina queen, marina queen".

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    South Oxfordshire, Gosport and Wellington New Zealand.
    Posts
    6,757

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    A "straw man" argument is where you pick a point which no one is making ,then argue against it, to convince yourself that you have won the argument ( which no one has been making.) I have never said that everyone should adopt my lifestyle, and no one should want or have or want a marina queen , just that my points and posts are for those who don't want that kind of life style. The straw man arguments assume that everyone should want only that kind of lifestyle. They assume that no one should have info on alternatives.
    Methinks he protesteth too much.............................................

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    65

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Me thinketh I couldn’t give a rats arse what he says. I put him on ignor hundreds of posts ago. Reading the rants of a delusional waster is time wasted. I could be doing something constructive, like watching paint dry...

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    855

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by john_morris_uk View Post
    You’d gain more respect if you stopped using derisory or snide phrases such as ‘marina queen’.

    Out of interest, I was at a YC dinner sitting with this man last Friday: https://oceancruisingclub.org/prizew...8/Bill-McLaren

    He and his wife only cruise high latitudes. (N and S) and he was Commodore of the Ocean Cruising Club. He was telling me of his sailing around S America and the Falklands and Greenland. His chosen boat for this extreme sailing off the beaten track? A Bowman 40 GRP boat. Bill’s ‘off the beaten track credentials’ are impeccable and trump almost any other sailor in the world in cruising terms.

    I’d be tempted by a Bowman 40’ myself if we had to change but there’s a lot of emotional energy in our old (very solid) Westerly GRP boat for us to jump horses now.
    Yes and there are people with similar experience, who wouldn't dream of cruising in anything which is not metal. No amount of experience makes anyone the "infallible , last word" on any issue.
    When you get to Tahiti, you meet a lot of other cruisers ,who have crossed the same stretch of ocean, in the same conditions, who have all drawn different conclusions. Having all had ocean crossing experience, all are self proclaimed 'Experts' and opinions are as varied as the number of them . You should hear the arguments fly. I was no different , after my first crossing, in my early 20s. What I believed after 2 years of singlehanding around the S Pacific then is, in many ways ,very different from what I have learned since. Regardless of experience, it only takes one mid ocean collision with a container or freighter , to upset what one has believed for a long time. I don't think the crew of Gringo are wishing they were in a plastic boat, or singing the praises of plastic over steel.
    All the experience in the world, in a plastic boat, does not make one an expert on steel boats, any more than the highest qualifications as a dentist qualifies one to do heart surgery.
    Among boats regularly cruising to Antarctica ,plastic is rare ,metal far more common. A friend, who cruised down there for years, has a steel boat. When asked ,she says "I had plastic boats ,owned an aluminium boat ,put lots of miles on them, now I have a steel boat , wouldn't go back to plastic or aluminium. What does that tell you?
    Last edited by Brent Swain; 31-10-18 at 20:20.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    855

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by SlowlyButSurely View Post
    So you are comparing a 300k boat with a 4k boat and find that the 300k boat is more comfortable!

    If you don't go cruising in the steel boat you probably won't ever appreciate the advantages and will continue to gripe about the disadvantages. As Brent says a grp boat would suit you better. But can you get an equally capable grp boat for 4k?
    To be comfortable in cold latitudes ,a boat of any material needs insulation, of which most stock boats have none. An uninsulated plastic boat or an uninsulated steel boat are very wet and uncomfortable. Both will drip non stop condensation, when being lived aboard. Friends living on stock plastic boats here are doing everything they can to insulate. First ,they are trying to seal all the inevitable deck leaks you get from having to bolt everything down on a plastic boat, a problem to you don't have with welded down fittings on a steel boat. Most have rotted out balsa cores to deal with. On your side of the pond ,you have greatly reduced the deck leak problem, since the 70s, by raising the deck under fittings ,so water doesn't sit against the bedding. Sadly few, if any ,plastic boat builders here, have caught onto that trick.
    Then they spray foam. Even foam cores don't work as well as spray foam. Any where the core is missing , you get serious condensation. Some just go ahead and spray foam ,core or no core, and live very comfortably , as a result. A good airtight woodstove, standard on most liveaboards around here, dries things out quickly, and keeps things super dry.
    A properly insulted $4K boat with no deck leaks and a good wood stove, is far more comfortable than any $300K boat without. BTUs don't read the price tag, to decide how they behave.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    855

    Default Re: Steelboats

    On a steel boat, make damned sure you have a good buildup of epoxy tar on the inside ,before spray foaming. Far too many good boats have been lost to lack of inside epoxy. Foam is no protection for steel.

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