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Thread: Steelboats

  1. #791
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
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    South Oxfordshire, Gosport and Wellington New Zealand.
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    7,577

    Default Re: Steelboats

    [QUOTE=Brent Swain;6702700]
    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post

    Reality Is a hull and deck for $17 K, instead of the $250K my clients have been quoted from fabricating shops.
    Reality is over 40 years of trouble free ocean cruising in my designs, by people who couldnt afford such a custom built, new steel boat any other way .Reality is the excellent passage times Steve posted on Silas Crosby.The list goes on.
    But, Brent, the reality is that very few build or want to build your boats, or boats like them.

    In comparison to the hundreds of thousands who choose to buy a new or pre owned GRP or boat made of another material.

    You cater for the bottom end of a huge market. Some of the video's you and others have linked to are not very flattering to the boats or the builders, however successfully they perform long term.

    All credit for achieving what you wished to achieve with your life, but why regale us on this forum with many unsubstantiated facts? Why be so dismissive of boats made from other materials, boat sales people and boat parts suppliers?

    IMHO, you have a personality defect or an unrealistic and imagined sense of where you and your boats lie in the grand order of all things marine.

    There is a post on this forum suggesting sailing accessory manufacturers are making poor products-something you have maintained several times. Apart from the Raymarine tiller pilots, most people are happy-and their kit is pretty trouble free.
    Have you nothing to input into that thread-after all, you make your own stuff because what you can buy is crap/too expensive/not strong enough.

    But few posters find the same as you, and are satisfied with OE equipment or aftermarket purchases.

    A bit like this thread really-most are happy with GRP, except you................................

  2. #792
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    Oct 2010
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    1,289

    Default Re: Steelboats

    There is a great article in the March 2019 issue of Sail magazine, by a guy who followed the advice given here, and bought an older, stock plastic boat to refurbish.
    Took him 14 years . Mine took 30 days to hit the water ,another ten to detail, and another ten to paint and foam. Three more to rough the interior in and another week to rig.
    A new custom built boat,of new materials.
    Sure beats 14 years!
    Another interesting article there is the guy who had a horrendously complex water system, which nearly sunk his boat, which he replaced with another horrendously complex one, at great expense.
    No, making a boat more complex doesn't constitute making it a better cruising boat!
    "Simplicity is the true genius !"
    Albert Einstein.
    Last edited by Brent Swain; 20-02-19 at 19:18.

  3. #793
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,289

    Default Re: Steelboats

    [QUOTE=rotrax;6702703]
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post

    But, Brent, the reality is that very few build or want to build your boats, or boats like them.

    In comparison to the hundreds of thousands who choose to buy a new or pre owned GRP or boat made of another material.

    You cater for the bottom end of a huge market. Some of the video's you and others have linked to are not very flattering to the boats or the builders, however successfully they perform long term.

    All credit for achieving what you wished to achieve with your life, but why regale us on this forum with many unsubstantiated facts? Why be so dismissive of boats made from other materials, boat sales people and boat parts suppliers?

    IMHO, you have a personality defect or an unrealistic and imagined sense of where you and your boats lie in the grand order of all things marine.

    There is a post on this forum suggesting sailing accessory manufacturers are making poor products-something you have maintained several times. Apart from the Raymarine tiller pilots, most people are happy-and their kit is pretty trouble free.
    Have you nothing to input into that thread-after all, you make your own stuff because what you can buy is crap/too expensive/not strong enough.

    But few posters find the same as you, and are satisfied with OE equipment or aftermarket purchases.

    A bit like this thread really-most are happy with GRP, except you................................
    No mine are at the tiny top end of the cruising boat market.
    Yes ,boats which rarely leave the marina keep their owners happy with the gear on them. On these sites , I hear of problems with furlers, windvanes anchor winches, thru hulls, etc , etc, which my gear has no problem with, in decades of full time cruising, at a fraction the cost.
    Seems they regard the breakdowns and problems inevitable, and unavoidable, which I never have. Yank Designer Bob Perry said "If it doesn't break it is over built!" Not surprising , coming from someone who ridicules strength and toughness. Not someone a cruisers should pay $175 an hour to, for advice.
    Few cruisers in stock plastic boats are remotely aware of the amount of abuse a steel boat can survive, and the toughness of steel boats, nor the peace of mind cruising in one brings. Few have experienced that.
    Anyone questioning mass group think will be considered to have a "personality defect" by the sheeple. All new innovations and ideas have faced the same syndrome, which would have kept us in the stone age, had they been followed .
    [Quote]
    you make your own stuff because what you can buy is crap/too expensive/not strong enough.
    [Quote]
    Right on! You got it!
    [Quote]
    Some of the video's you and others have linked to are not very flattering to the boats or the builders, however successfully they perform long term.
    [Quote]
    "Fools and children should never be allowed to see a work of art incomplete."
    Picasso.
    Yes, they make a big deal out of optical illusions, like the picture of the bow plates at the stem appearing to not line up. Worried me, until I checked the measurements to the marks where I joined the two halves .Identical measurements down both sides. I pulled the two sides together, from the bottom up, and when I got the top, they matched perfectly ( which picture critics did not show). Then they accused me of making the edge of one plate shorter, by forcing it to be shorter with a pipe clamp! Such is the incredible ignorance of some of my critics, and some who believe them.

    Nice to be home from Mexico. Reminds me how great, and how much simpler life is here.
    Last edited by Brent Swain; 20-02-19 at 19:49.

  4. #794
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    S.W. France
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    7,272

    Default Re: Steelboats

    I seemed to have missed 'the advice given here' to spend 14 years refurbish an old boat. Would you like to point me to it?
    You keep quoting vague stories to justify your ideas. Yes, you can pull together a hull in a fairly short time and have good ideas to avoid corrosion.
    But, when you compare your old 17k against a professional yard at 250k you are loosing the plot. I quite simply don't believe you. (and not just based on that bit)
    Then you quote people who might have odd ideas about water systems ?? Give me an idea (Please! ) about what that has to do about this discussion? Lots of people make bad decisons about boat kit. Nothing to do about steel boats.

  5. #795
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    Dec 2007
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    [QUOTE=Brent Swain;6709052][QUOTE=rotrax;6702703]

    No mine are at the tiny top end of the cruising boat market.
    /QUOTE]
    You really think that? Explains a few of your wilder posts.

  6. #796
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    Dec 2010
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    South Oxfordshire, Gosport and Wellington New Zealand.
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    Why dont we see these problems in the magnitude you encounter on this side of the pond Brent? Surprising when we have many, many more boats in use than BC.

    I am not suggesting for a moment they cant and dont happen, but you know loads of friends suffering these problems, every bay in BC is littered with holed GRP boats, all GRP boats in BC are only fit for " Marina Queens "

    Its different in the UK and Europe. The ones in trouble are made from a dense, heavy metal which is severely prone to corrosion near seawater.

    Most of the boats suffering expensive or terminal problems are not made of wood, aluminium or GRP over here.

    I am an active member of 2 yacht/boat clubs, one in the UK, one in NZ. Total membership of boat owners around 300. IIRC-in the last two years, apart from improvements and routine maintenance:-

    One GibSea had a loose P bracket, one knocked a bit off his rudder sailing a 6 foot draught boat in 4 feet of water in Wellington Harbour trying an expensive short cut during an evening race, one had a shroud fail-it was 30 years old, so he changed the lot-one had a serious water leak from a hatch, again a 40 year old Houdini which required re-glazing by a specialist. Another GRP owner had a water leak from the toerail. Lifting and re-bedding the through deck stantion bases soon sorted that.

    No one currently has serious osmosis, but some have had treatment in the past, no one has a rotted core, or a problem with through hulls or mast supports.

    So, that is my experience through knowing the gossip around 300 ish mostly GRP vessels in two clubs. Lets double the number of serious faults, as I might not be aware of some, and we get ten.

    Just with your friends you list eight.

    I honestly think you are bullshitting...................................... ..

    I note you have made no reply to the above, Brent, but as usual have waffled, evaded and made nebulous answers to other perhaps less direct questions.

    As I said, I honestly think you are BS ing.

  7. #797
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    Jun 2007
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    Home: North West, Boat: The Clyde
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    3,485

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Swain View Post
    There is a great article in the March 2019 issue of Sail magazine, by a guy who followed the advice given here, and bought an older, stock plastic boat to refurbish. Took him 14 years............
    Reminds me of a steel boat hulk left abandoned in north Wales. The original owner progressed as far as bare hull and gave up as he discovered that it simply wasn’t worth the effort to complete. He tried to sell it at ever reducing price, but no takers. He then tried to give it away, no takers. After many years he called in the cavalry to cut it up for scrap.

    By BS logic, this proves conclusively that steel boats are a burden too far. The original owner in this true story bought a plastic boat and sailed happily into the sunset

  8. #798
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    Jan 2005
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    West of Scotland
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    2,981

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by davidjackson View Post
    Reminds me of a steel boat hulk left abandoned in north Wales. The original owner progressed as far as bare hull and gave up as he discovered that it simply wasn’t worth the effort to complete. He tried to sell it at ever reducing price, but no takers. He then tried to give it away, no takers. After many years he called in the cavalry to cut it up for scrap.

    By BS logic, this proves conclusively that steel boats are a burden too far. The original owner in this true story bought a plastic boat and sailed happily into the sunset
    BS isn't interested in the truth. I gave an example of when my grp boat trashed a steel pushpit and he called me a liar.

  9. #799
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    Oct 2010
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    1,289

    Default Re: Steelboats

    Quote Originally Posted by DownWest View Post
    I seemed to have missed 'the advice given here' to spend 14 years refurbish an old boat. Would you like to point me to it?
    You keep quoting vague stories to justify your ideas. Yes, you can pull together a hull in a fairly short time and have good ideas to avoid corrosion.
    But, when you compare your old 17k against a professional yard at 250k you are loosing the plot. I quite simply don't believe you. (and not just based on that bit)
    Then you quote people who might have odd ideas about water systems ?? Give me an idea (Please! ) about what that has to do about this discussion? Lots of people make bad decisons about boat kit. Nothing to do about steel boats.
    Read the March issue of Sail Magazine. It is clearly there. Nothing "vague" about it.
    Read the materials list on the origamiboats site, and cal a steeL supplier for a quote. Then compare that top a quote for enough fibreglassing materials for a 36 ft plastic boat , then read Bob Perrys quote of $300K US for a mold . Just saw an add for a roller furler in Sail Magazine for $8K US . Mine cost me $80. If i won millions in the lottery, I would have no reason to change it

  10. #800
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    Default Re: Steelboats

    Are you a politician Brent?

    You are very good at not answering the question.

    Nobody is suggesting that the owner did not spend 14 years doing the boat. The question was:- Please show me the "advice given here" which caused him to spend all this time.

    "Here", as we all understand, being this thread, on this forum. THAT is what you suggested was the cause of the timescale.

    And reply to post #795 Brent.

    Otherwise the abreviation for Bullshit-which as you know is BS may change to:- " No way! You are Brent Swaining me! "

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