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Thread: Girls for Sail

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Girls for Sail

    Quote Originally Posted by bedouin View Post
    It is odd that in this day and age anyone thinks it is acceptable to have a company that is discriminating in this way. It is a clear breach of discrimination legislation. Whether is should be is a different question.

    BTW I believe a number of sea schools do offer women only weeks which is probably acceptable.
    I can't understand a logic that says you can so women only weeks but not offer women only courses

    It's not discrimination, it's just an attempt to create a particular type of environment that some people are comfortable in - it's not like there's no alternatives available for men or any restrictions on running a men-only course. My ex and a few other ladies I know have done women-only courses, one of them with Girls for Sail and they came back having enjoyed themselves in an environment where there where no aggressive/competitive types that don't want to listen.

    I prefer sailing with more relaxed types and wish there was a way that quality could be quantified so I could take courses and charters, etc. with only them.

  2. #52
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    Default Re: Girls for Sail

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    I'm not convinced. I can't see any reason why a company cannot be set up to address an imbalance in participation in any activity.



    The reverse is more common, I find - people who object to discrimination in favour of women while happily accepting discrimination in favour of men.

    You see a related response when universities use contextual admission policies - which basically lower A-level grade requirements for applicants from poorer school. "Social engineering!" scream private sector schools and parents, as if spending £20k per year for six year to buy better A-level grades than would have been achieved elsewhere wasn't the most pernicious social engineering in the UK ...
    As I said, I don't have a problem with G4S but the law does - as the discrimination law stands today what they are doing falls outside what is acceptable according to the law.

    Not sure where the bit about social engineering comes in. In fact education is one area where white men are discriminated against pretty heavily and I don't see you or anyone else screaming about that.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: Girls for Sail

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy_o_g View Post
    I can't understand a logic that says you can so women only weeks but not offer women only courses

    It's not discrimination, it's just an attempt to create a particular type of environment that some people are comfortable in - it's not like there's no alternatives available for men or any restrictions on running a men-only course. My ex and a few other ladies I know have done women-only courses, one of them with Girls for Sail and they came back having enjoyed themselves in an environment where there where no aggressive/competitive types that don't want to listen.

    I prefer sailing with more relaxed types and wish there was a way that quality could be quantified so I could take courses and charters, etc. with only them.
    As I said above we are not talking about logic we are talking about the law.

    The nonsense are the wooly minded so-called liberals who decry discrimination while at the same time lauding this sort of positive discrimination.

  4. #54
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    Default Re: Girls for Sail

    Quote Originally Posted by bedouin View Post
    As I said above we are not talking about logic we are talking about the law.

    The nonsense are the wooly minded so-called liberals who decry discrimination while at the same time lauding this sort of positive discrimination.
    Back of the net!

  5. #55
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    Default Re: Girls for Sail

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabande View Post
    Doesn't take much, Stu, to find out that the case is being handled by Vidisha Joshi who is head of the Personal Injury department of Hodge, Jones & Allen.
    Link?
    Found the brief but only vague press statements in 2016 about taking legal action. No hard news about court dates or judgements
    Last edited by Heckler; 17-06-18 at 10:18.

  6. #56
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    Default Re: Girls for Sail

    Quote Originally Posted by sarabande View Post
    "The statitics confirm this; with equal A-level grades, comprehensively educated children get better degrees. "

    I have not read anything like that till now., so a source would be appreciated please, JD. There may be other factors involved in comprehensive students success, apart from the type of school attended. I was thinking of motivation, appetite for 'improvement', appreciation of opportunity, and similar factors which comfortably educated and supported children might not possess. Much is down to hunger and ambition, as I have certainly seen in my involvement in education.
    Try having a dig around the HESA (Higher Education Statistics Area) website. I agree that it's a complicated situation, with many factors to consider. For example, almost all the best students I taught engineering were women ... but they made up perhaps 20% of the total, and a young woman has to be bloody determined to go into engineering, which skews things.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  7. #57
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    Default Re: Girls for Sail

    Seems more like positive action to me. Get enough men together and I presume any commercial firm will take you out rather than refuse (as in gay wedding cakes).

  8. #58
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    Default Re: Girls for Sail

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy_o_g View Post
    It's not discrimination, it's just an attempt to create a particular type of environment that some people are comfortable in ...
    Absolutely. See http://oytscotland.org.uk/2017/05/3382/ for another example.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  9. #59
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    Default Re: Girls for Sail

    Quote Originally Posted by bedouin View Post
    As I said, I don't have a problem with G4S but the law does - as the discrimination law stands today what they are doing falls outside what is acceptable according to the law.
    Citation needed. As far as I can see, their course fell fairly within the exceptions listed in the Women in Sport document I linked to earlier.

    Not sure where the bit about social engineering comes in. In fact education is one area where white men are discriminated against pretty heavily and I don't see you or anyone else screaming about that.
    You are sadly misinformed.







    Last edited by JumbleDuck; 17-06-18 at 11:11.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  10. #60
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    Default Re: Girls for Sail

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    Citation needed. As far as I can see, their course fell fairly within the exceptions listed in the Women in Sport document I linked to earlier.


    You are sadly misinformed.
    On the first point all the examples given relate to offering girls only courses alongside mixed (or men only) or where there is no demand from men.

    Hence the big difference between a company that offers both and one that only provides courses to women. None of the exceptions listed cover this case and there is little doubt that if any man challenged them in court they would lose. But I repeat I have no problem with them doing so - it is the law that is an ass in this case.

    As to education you are being selective with your figures. Look deeper and you will find that white (primarily working class) boys are being seriously disadvantaged in the secondary education system. However you choose to ignore that as it doesn't suit your anti-men agenda.

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