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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    20,261

    Default Re: traveller down vs twist off?

    I assumed when I posted previously that we were considering beats, ie head up in gusts, part of the skill is in predicting and observing when those gusts are coming. Off the wind we try to ease both sheets in gusts which we find keeps best speed but the traveller is quicker when pressed.
    If I'd wanted to live in a Banana Republic I'd have gone to South America.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Poole
    Posts
    408

    Default Re: traveller down vs twist off?

    Worth also considering water conditions.
    Flat water means you can pinch higher in the gusts, which in turn requires more main leech tension on the main.
    Nasty waves and chop require more drive, when twisting off the rig (both main and jib genoa) can be more effective.
    I'm a big believer in looking at the rig as a whole, not two sails in isolation, which is why I always look at how well the leech of the jib/Genoa matches the twist in the main in dictating slot shape.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Posts
    1,488

    Default Re: traveller down vs twist off?

    Quote Originally Posted by flaming View Post
    Quite a big topic... And it does depend on the boat to an extent. But...

    If you are keeping the leach on hard, and dropping the traveller in the gusts, then what you are doing is closing the slot. However if you are keeping the traveller up, easing the sheet to depower in gusts, then you are only closing the slot at the top, and as you say you have probably started to drop the car back to open it up anyway.

    If your boat is quite a traditional boat with a big overlapping genoa and quite a wide sheeting angle, then the 1st approach can be quite effective, as the tight leach allows you to keep your height whilst the relatively open slot is less susceptible to being closed. However, if your boat is quite modern, with a non overlapping, high aspect ratio jib that is inhauled to a small sheeting angle, then dropping the traveller is just going to shut off the flow too much and kill a lot of drive. In this case you will be better going with the sheet unless you need to dump the traveller quickly just to keep the boat on its feet.

    We did an experiment one windy day, and figured out that for us playing the fine tune was the best method, with the traveller up above the centre line and available for an "oh bother" type dump. This was definitely quicker for us.
    Please could define the slot ?- i'm having trouble understanding - presumably distance between the sails in some plane or other?

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,244

    Default Re: traveller down vs twist off?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yealm View Post
    Please could define the slot ?- i'm having trouble understanding - presumably distance between the sails in some plane or other?
    It's the gap between headsail and mainsail that air flows through. Managing that flow is very important for optimum sail trim.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    1,055

    Default Re: traveller down vs twist off?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yealm View Post
    Please could define the slot ?- i'm having trouble understanding - presumably distance between the sails in some plane or other?
    The slot between the headsail and the main is crucial to the speed of the boat, particularly upwind. In low winds and a calm sea you look for a narrow slot to help increase the wind flow on the leeward side of the main. In stronger winds, you still want a decent flow over the leeward side of the main but you don't want to be overpowered so you open the slot a bit. On the X-99 we used to move the genoa traveller back two or three notches; other classes might move the headsail sheeting position outboard a little. This is an over simplification of the topic. There are many books offering good advice here.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    falmouth
    Posts
    13,936

    Default Re: traveller down vs twist off?

    Quote Originally Posted by TLouth7 View Post
    Setting aside actual sail shape considerations for a second, we dump with the traveller for two primary reasons. Firstly it is more ergonomic with a nice pull angle on the control line and greater effective purchase, and secondly it makes getting back to the correct trim after the gust easier as twist is not affected. Note that our yacht is the first type described by Flaming, so dropping the main has little effect on genoa drive.
    Sail shape is important and dumping the traveller in a gust makes it far quicker to get back to a decent shape at the right angle of attack than letting out the main sheet. But gust is the important word. If you are in the no mans land with average wind a bit strong but not yet reef worthy, then getting twist into the main is the way to go IMO. Or at least this seems to work with my boat.

    The reason why the approach is different for the jib is that it doesnt have the same controls. Bit of a statement of the bleeding obvious I know.
    this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Newport
    Posts
    251

    Default Re: traveller down vs twist off?

    lest we run the risk of perpetuating any myths, for those in doubt about slot theory:

    https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so...YxOS2-yJLwfxlv

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: traveller down vs twist off?

    when racing we always played the traveller first. It kept the main driving but allowed for a quick de-power when needed, then back in again as the gust died. Easing the main sheet brings in a lot more twist to the sail but is more of a long term power down if you know what I mean.

    So traveller first, sheet second. If it's still overpowered then 1) get some more meat on the rail, 2) reef 3) call it a day and go for a pint.

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