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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    298

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by bedouin View Post
    If he stopped 50 yds away and you were 100m from your preferred spot it sounds as if he left you enough space anyway (depending on depth etc).

    I don't see how you think he could be expected to know where you were heading for.
    Not that it really matters but just to be clear. I was following a transit given by the harbour master heading directly for the beach at 2 knots, 300 yards off and intending to anchor 200 yards off. Closer in would be too shallow to anchor.

    Guy comes charging past on the same heading 10 metres away at 7 knots. Reduces speed as soon as he passes and comes to halt 200 yards off the beach. By the time he came to a halt I was 50 yards away from him and had to veer away. All this happed in less than 30 seconds. My thought process was - where the hell is he going at that speed/ he is slowing down/ he has stopped directly in front of us / we are going to hit him / we had better abandon and do a 180 degrees turn/ what a ****.

    Bear in mind that there is a 10m tide in the Bristol Channel. We were at low water and planning to anchor in 3.5m (so 13.5m at high water overnight) with a rode of 60m. That is over a 100m of swing so boats here can not anchor too close to each other. Boats do not always swing in sequence up here. Some may lie to wind and some to tide so two boats with anchors 100m apart could theoretically swing into each other.
    Last edited by Dutch01527; 03-09-18 at 11:11.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,292

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by bedouin View Post
    To mean edging implies that you are looking to drop the anchor pretty much immediately and it would seem perfectly sensible for the other boat to pass and get out of your way.
    That sounds pretty plausible to me and I can imagine myself doing that. "He's going there, I'll wizz out of his way and drop mine beyond him.". Without mind reading it's hard to be sure what he was thinking.

    As for passing 10m away, a 'boat length' clearance sound pretty reasonable, generous even.
    Last edited by Mark-1; 03-09-18 at 11:13.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    21,157

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch01527 View Post
    Not that it really matters but just to be clear. I was following a transit given by the harbour master heading directly for the beach at 2 knots, 300 yards off and intending to anchor 200 yards off. Guy comes charging past on the same heading 10 metres away at 7 knots. Reduces speed as soon as he passes and comes to halt 200 yards off the beach. By the time he came to a halt I was 50 yards away from him and had to veer away. All this happed in less than 30 seconds.
    Err - no it didn't. At 2 knots you wouldn't cover 50yds in less than 30 seconds - but let that pass

    I don't want to sound critical and his motives may have been as you describe but I think there was sufficient ambiguity in your actions that he may not have realised your intentions. As I said above if I saw a boat edging around at those speeds it might not occur to me that he was looking to anchor 100m away and I might well choose to get out of the way and leave you to whatever you were doing.

    As a matter of interest was he making an overnight stop?

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    17,886

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by Robih View Post
    I acknowledge how annoying such an incident can be. We had something similar in the Crinan this year. Knob pushing forward overtaking us on the canal to get in the next lock first....yawn....
    Unfortunately the Crinan Canal can be a very good place to see some shocking manners, though still only from a minority. It always seems to be visiting English boats, too, importing Solent bustle to the sleepy West Highlands.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    298

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by bedouin View Post
    Err - no it didn't. At 2 knots you wouldn't cover 50yds in less than 30 seconds - but let that pass

    I don't want to sound critical and his motives may have been as you describe but I think there was sufficient ambiguity in your actions that he may not have realised your intentions. As I said above if I saw a boat edging around at those speeds it might not occur to me that he was looking to anchor 100m away and I might well choose to get out of the way and leave you to whatever you were doing.

    As a matter of interest was he making an overnight stop?
    I looked it up and you are right 2 knots would take 44 seconds to cover 50 yards. I amend my description, I should of said that I was doing 2.4 knots and covered 44 yards in 35 seconds . The guy did stay overnight.

    I can not see any possibility of ambiguity as to my intentions, I was travelling in a 28 foot sailing boat directly towards a shelving beach,in a known anchorage area, at a cautious speed but still clearly identifiable as making forward progress. He stopped 56 yards in front of me to drop his anchor. Pretty obvious I was feeling my way in to get to a depth suitable to anchor as any sensible sailor would if they did not know the site. Even if I had already been anchored he would have slid back to my position by the time he had paid out his rode.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    19,923

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch01527 View Post
    I looked it up and you are right 2 knots would take 44 seconds to cover 50 yards. I amend my description, I should of said that I was doing 2.4 knots and covered 44 yards in 35 seconds . The guy did stay overnight.

    I can not see any possibility of ambiguity as to my intentions, I was travelling in a 28 foot sailing boat directly towards a shelving beach,in a known anchorage area, at a cautious speed but still clearly identifiable as making forward progress. He stopped 56 yards in front of me to drop his anchor. Pretty obvious I was feeling my way in to get to a depth suitable to anchor as any sensible sailor would if they did not know the site. Even if I had already been anchored he would have slid back to my position by the time he had paid out his rode.
    Fear not. I think that most readers have accepted your description of events and accept that since you were there you should know what happened. For training in how to assert your rights I can recommend doing a transit of the Netherlands from N-S or vice versa during the silly season. Better still, try passing the Kornwerderzand locks on a Sunday afternoon.
    Far away is near at hand in images of elsewhere

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    5,223

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Leaving aside the very boring arguementative pedantic contributions from the usual suspects, yes it was very rude and unseamanlike to barge past a slow moving vessel approaching an anchorage and drop the hook close in front of them. We have yet to get the Colregs arguement----Did the other vessel count as an overtaking vessel and did he keep clear of you while passing and until he was past and clear?

  8. #18
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    21,157

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch01527 View Post
    I looked it up and you are right 2 knots would take 44 seconds to cover 50 yards. I amend my description, I should of said that I was doing 2.4 knots and covered 44 yards in 35 seconds . The guy did stay overnight.

    I can not see any possibility of ambiguity as to my intentions, I was travelling in a 28 foot sailing boat directly towards a shelving beach,in a known anchorage area, at a cautious speed but still clearly identifiable as making forward progress. He stopped 56 yards in front of me to drop his anchor. Pretty obvious I was feeling my way in to get to a depth suitable to anchor as any sensible sailor would if they did not know the site. Even if I had already been anchored he would have slid back to my position by the time he had paid out his rode.
    But if he thought you were feeling your way in then how could he know where you were going to decide to drop the hook?

    From what you said earlier it appeared that you knew beforehand that you wanted to be 200yds off so were not in fact feeling your way in by depth. I think you overestimate how clear your intentions were to the other boat.

    There seems to be an increasing either relutance or inability to put ourselves from the other's perspective.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    540

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    My Partners been with me several times this season and got used to listening to radio protocol and the way people generally interact with each other. She said the other day, isn't it nice how everyone is so polite. shes not been on the forum though!!.

    Steveeasy

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Posts
    75

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Of course , standards are declining, just look at the marine division of the travellers.
    Add to that, the advent of cheap GPS units, that now allow the uninformed, to go to sea, then try to get help ,after a lightning strike takes out their electrics ? Or any other electrical failure ?
    A lot of the clowns I know, dont even bother with paper charts, since the laptop does it all, until it stops working, for whatever reason.
    Yes I still carry my sextant and my air nav books. I have a small vhf and a small gps ,in carrymat foam lined tins, that act as farraday cages, so even after a lightning strike, I have short range coms + gps with spare batteries.
    I cannot remember the ammount of times , I have had to explain to, techy type tossers, Ok if you are mid atlantic & suffer an electronic breakdown ??
    The sun rises in the East & sets in the West, keep following that, and with no nav gear at all, you will reach land eventually.
    I do not think they do it on purpouse, they are just so full of their mobile phones and their Twit Face Likes, that they walk into lamp posts, cars ,etc, and do not change their ideas at sea.

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