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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    298

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    [QUOTE= The boat following had no idea what the harbour master had told the Op to do & had no idea what he was faffing about at, so just burned through & got on with the process of anchoring. If the OP knew where he was going one might ask why he was dawdling. Not the answer he wants but!!!!![/QUOTE]

    With the greatest respect and not wanting to be rude, what a load of nonsense. I was 100 yards from the anchoring point approaching at 2 knots - already established as less than 50 seconds away from stopping at the least depth that was practical. I was not faffing about or dawdling. I was not visited the location before and it was prudent to monitor the depth as I approached. What would you do - steam towards the shoaling beach at full speed?

    This was not a canal, it is sea with miles of options to keep out of the way. If your third gear is broken and this means that “The only alternative I have is to stop all together or pass them” you can not navigate safely without endangering other boats and you need to get it fixed.

    The thread responses are interesting and are rapidly answering the question I asked in the thread title.
    Last edited by Dutch01527; 03-09-18 at 21:07.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    17,891

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch01527 View Post
    The thread responses are interesting and are rapidly answering the question I asked in the thread title.
    My estimate is an 80% chance that the other skipper was being rude and a 20% chance that he misread the situation.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    298

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    My estimate is an 80% chance that the other skipper was being rude and a 20% chance that he misread the situation.
    Probably about right.

    Actually to me the pushing ahead was less significant than the other minor incident when two other boats near me left their full navigation steaming lights on overnight at anchor. We did not notice until we dragged a bit at 2.00am and I jumped out of bed after an alarm went off.

    They nearly caused me a heart attack when I saw a red/green/white a couple of hundred yards away. I thought that we were in danger of being run down. I seriously thought of starting the engine and cutting the anchor rode but realised that they were too close so grabbed a powerful torch to signal our presence and saw that the boats were actually anchored.

    Could be a mistake that both boats coincidentally switching on the wrong lights but given that their crews were together in the pub more likely to be lack of knowledge.
    Last edited by Dutch01527; 04-09-18 at 08:20.

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,579

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch01527 View Post
    ........ until we dragged a bit at 2.00am and I jumped out of bed after an alarm went off.

    They nearly caused me a heart attack when I saw a red/green/white a couple of hundred yards away. I thought that we were in danger of being run down. I seriously thought of starting the engine and cutting the anchor rode but realised that they were too close so grabbed a powerful torch to signal our presence and saw that the boats were actually anchored.
    I suspect many of us have been woken from a deep sleep by some emergency like this. No time to shake the brains back into place, instant reactions required.
    So I now have a couple of standard operating procedures - a powerful torch close to hand at the companionway, and keys to the engine always in place AND guest crew taught how to start the engine. As well as instructed to shout like h*ll if they see/hear anything and I am fast asleep up in the forward cabin.

    What else should we do?

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Me Edinburgh, boat JWD
    Posts
    4,863

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    What anchor and scope were you using when you dragged?

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Suffolk
    Posts
    4,938

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by awol View Post
    The yin founded in 1881 that is most likely to have a boat with four Scottish bumblies has the rights to an undefaced blue.
    Thank you, I was misremembering, the other club with a lion is the Royal Northumberland, I saw one once in Woodbridge, and initially saw the RNYC on the transom as RHYC.
    AFAIK they are the only 2 Royal Clubs with no crown as part of the defacement.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    21,159

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by Dutch01527 View Post
    The thread responses are interesting and are rapidly answering the question I asked in the thread title.
    But I think you yourself are showing signs of the same behaviour.

    Having experienced behaviour that can either have been deliberate rudeness or misreading the situation you choose to be 100% sure it is the former.

    Personally I think the sailors today are less considerate / courteous than they were 20 years ago but I suspect that is largely down to inexperience/ignorance/lack of consideration than deliberate rudeness

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Me Edinburgh, boat JWD
    Posts
    4,863

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by Leighb View Post
    AFAIK they are the only 2 Royal Clubs with no crown as part of the defacement.
    Well, there's Royal Gourock, Royal Northern and Clyde, Royal Western, Royal Highland and probably Royal Gibraltar just to name a few.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Posts
    298

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by awol View Post
    What anchor and scope were you using when you dragged?
    First time I had anchored overnight on my new boat. 28 foot medium displacement Dehler (c.3000 kg). Anchor was a Fortress FX16 fitted with mud palms. Rode was 30 metres 8mm chain and 30 metres leaded rope. Depth on anchoring 3.5m ( 1 metre above low water on a rising tide) rising to c.12m at high water overnight. Forecast from 3 different sites was 7-9 knots offshore wind which is what we experienced in the evening. Wind picked up to 20-25 knots pretty constantly at about midnight. Anchor dragged two times by about 50 - 70 metres ( drag not swing) and each time set itself again without help. I think that other boats also dragged, one appeared to be re setting at about 4 in the morning.

    The holding in Porlock is not great, gravel with patches of mud/sand. I would not have planned a visit there if the wind had been onshore or the forecast had been accurate. When the planned spot (known to be mud/sand which suits the Fortress) was taken and we had to find another and I suspect that we were in gravel. The anchor came up clean.

    I had a 16 kg Bruce anchor onboard and more nylon rode. In retrospect that may have been a better choice but we were well dug in and were fooled by the light conditions and forecasts. I should have also used a snubber, the boat was snatching a bit. I considered changing configuration in the middle of the night but decided that we were in no danger, the dragging was out to sea and not towards other boats so it was safer to leave things as they were.

    I would welcome any advice as to what I should have done differently, I am not new to sailing but have limited anchoring experience on my own small boat.
    Last edited by Dutch01527; 04-09-18 at 10:10.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Yarmouth IoW
    Posts
    229

    Default Re: Are sailors standards of behaviour declining

    Quote Originally Posted by bedouin View Post

    Personally I think the sailors today are less considerate / courteous than they were 20 years ago but I suspect that is largely down to inexperience/ignorance/lack of consideration than deliberate rudeness
    So in situations like the one described, how do these inconsiderate people learn, and become experienced? Should we all carve them up, like on the motorway when people drive in the middle land at 55mph, to teach them? Should we go down the mandatory education route (including being able to cope with no electronic aids?) What? Also, what is your definition of "lack of consideration" if it is not rudeness - It appears in the synonyms dictionary as the same.

    IMHO - Good seamanship from the following vessel would be, stand off until it is clear what the intention of the vessel ahead (and therefore with right of way) is. Not to charge past. It is possible the vessel is experiencing steering / engine trouble and might suddenly veer / accelerate. Also, if this vessel knew there was good holding in a particular place, they almost certainly knew the transit that was being followed. In my mind, that makes a big difference. They weren't in open sea, but in a known channel. If someone tore past me when I follow a transit into the Deben etc and made me take avoiding action, I would go up to them and explain why it is not seaman like. - In case they didn't know!
    In this situation, if I was the OP, I would have gone alongside the other vessel, rafted to him (in a seaman like manner) with springs to keep masts apart etc, and proceeded to offer him a drink and socialise. When he questions what I am doing, I would then suggest "I thought this was your idea?" and see where the conversation goes. Especially if I had my other prop and hooker as crew!
    Last edited by Genoa; 04-09-18 at 09:59.

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