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  1. #71
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
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    Default Re: Yachtmaster offshore Practical (Sail) any tips?

    I have used drudging in good earnest, and I'd suggest a better way to do it is to keep the anchor on board and veer a bight of chain. You are less likely to foul something on the bottom and you can vary your drag, and thus your speed and your degree of rudder control, which is in inverse proportion to your speed, by varying the amount of chain you have out. You can also correct for varying depths this way. Your maximum speed is unlikely to be more than half that of the tidal current, but it will get you there under good control in the end.

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
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    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
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    8,520

    Default Re: Yachtmaster offshore Practical (Sail) any tips?

    If using a Walker log, do not go astern. If becalmed, hand it. Don't ask me how I know this.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: Yachtmaster offshore Practical (Sail) any tips?

    john_morris_uk - I was hoping someone like you might be lurking.
    Is "blind nav" by a candidate at the discretion of the YM examiner?
    Would you take a dim view of a candidate without an impellor log and a Walker log as backup to GPS?

    For those familiar with Walker logs, is the streaming & handing of these devices impractical unless on a long offshore passage?
    Too fiddly for a YM assessment in possibly congested waters?
    But if only needed for "blind nav" then possibly only required to be streamed for a short time?
    Lobster pots and floating lines are going to be a problem...?

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Celtic Fringe
    Posts
    13,857

    Default Re: Yachtmaster offshore Practical (Sail) any tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by john_morris_uk View Post
    And how do you know how fast you are going?
    On the exam boats I've been on the examiner stated the speed that the helm had to move the boat at.

    Do you do it differently John?
    Cynical Scottish almost retired engineer.

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    8,520

    Default Re: Yachtmaster offshore Practical (Sail) any tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by sailswim View Post
    john_morris_uk - I was hoping someone like you might be lurking.
    Is "blind nav" by a candidate at the discretion of the YM examiner?
    Would you take a dim view of a candidate without an impellor log and a Walker log as backup to GPS?

    For those familiar with Walker logs, is the streaming & handing of these devices impractical unless on a long offshore passage?
    Too fiddly for a YM assessment in possibly congested waters?
    But if only needed for "blind nav" then possibly only required to be streamed for a short time?
    Lobster pots and floating lines are going to be a problem...?
    I am extremely familiar with the Walker Excelsior and less so with the Knotmaster. Usually streamed when taking a departure on a passage and handed when again in pilotage waters. In fog, in confined waters, one does better using a Dutchman's log.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Farnham, Surrey
    Posts
    20,921

    Default Re: Yachtmaster offshore Practical (Sail) any tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy View Post
    On the exam boats I've been on the examiner stated the speed that the helm had to move the boat at.

    Do you do it differently John?
    I sometimes wish I had the cheek to tell a candidate to go a bit quicker. However frustrating it is to want to lean on the throttle or advise the candidate, imho it’s not a good idea...

    Two reasons why it’s not a good idea for an examiner to specify a speed.

    Firstly it puts unnecessary pressure on the candidates. They’re supposed to conduct the boat safely and that includes ‘at a safe speed’. I suppose if a candidate was hopelessly slow you’d consider they lacked ability but that’s a judgement to be made on the ability under the particular circumstances of wind weather and visibility and navigational constraints.

    Secondly there the whole question of safety and what happens if they hit something or stuff the boat aground in dangerous circumstances. Who is taking the rap? ‘The Examiner told me to go that fast isn’t a very convincing excuse and it doesn’t reflect well on the Examiner either.
    Semper aliud

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Farnham, Surrey
    Posts
    20,921

    Default Re: Yachtmaster offshore Practical (Sail) any tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by sailswim View Post
    john_morris_uk - I was hoping someone like you might be lurking.
    Is "blind nav" by a candidate at the discretion of the YM examiner?
    Would you take a dim view of a candidate without an impellor log and a Walker log as backup to GPS?

    For those familiar with Walker logs, is the streaming & handing of these devices impractical unless on a long offshore passage?
    Too fiddly for a YM assessment in possibly congested waters?
    But if only needed for "blind nav" then possibly only required to be streamed for a short time?
    Lobster pots and floating lines are going to be a problem...?
    Blind nav is discretionary. (As is everything except mob and night sailing)

    If you’ve got a good idea of how fast your boat moves through the water at different engine revs then you could use that? (It’s unusual to conduct blind nav under sail; but be prepared for anything!)

    Speed time distance is only a guide in tidal waters. The most accurate and useful instruments are your compass and echo
    sounder. An examiner will often ask you to find a buoy ‘blind’ but you’ll often see that the buoy he/she has chosen is on or near a contour line. Look up the tidal height and add to the contour live depth and get yourself onto that line to a definite ‘side’ (aim to miss) and then turn and keep the boat on that depth. As sure as eggs are eggs, you’ll find the buoy. Use the same technique to buoy hop en route. Don’t ignore the the tidal stream across or with or against you. Practice. It’s very satisfying when you get it right.
    Semper aliud

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: Yachtmaster offshore Practical (Sail) any tips?

    thanks for that useful advice, we will practise!

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Celtic Fringe
    Posts
    13,857

    Default Re: Yachtmaster offshore Practical (Sail) any tips?

    Quote Originally Posted by john_morris_uk View Post
    I sometimes wish I had the cheek to tell a candidate to go a bit quicker. However frustrating it is to want to lean on the throttle or advise the candidate, imho it’s not a good idea...

    Two reasons why it’s not a good idea for an examiner to specify a speed.

    Firstly it puts unnecessary pressure on the candidates. They’re supposed to conduct the boat safely and that includes ‘at a safe speed’. I suppose if a candidate was hopelessly slow you’d consider they lacked ability but that’s a judgement to be made on the ability under the particular circumstances of wind weather and visibility and navigational constraints.

    Secondly there the whole question of safety and what happens if they hit something or stuff the boat aground in dangerous circumstances. Who is taking the rap? ‘The Examiner told me to go that fast isn’t a very convincing excuse and it doesn’t reflect well on the Examiner either.
    Thanks John, as ever a fully explained reasoning to your position on a topic.
    Cynical Scottish almost retired engineer.

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Yachtmaster offshore Practical (Sail) any tips?

    Not that I am an examiner, but I did pass 22 years ago at the age of 21.

    The best piece of meta-advice I ever received was: you are always learning. As well as the navigation, helmsmanship, tides and the rest....I have great faith in those who, as crew or skipper, are aware of their limitations and aware there's a heap left to learn.

    I have sailed with some YMs, including Ocean, who (imho) don't deserve their ticket because they have stopped learning. Once you stop learning, you have lost your respect for the sea.

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