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  1. #61
    Join Date
    May 2007
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    Cambridge, UK
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    5,643

    Default Re: Looking for sheltered estuary setting in the East

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Harry View Post
    I understand that none of the Cambridge University's were ever Polytechnics, if that helps at all
    Anglia Ruskin, which has a campus at Cambridge, was formerly Cambridge College of Arts and Technology (a Polytechnic). Oddly, it is this University (and NOT THE Cambridge University!) that is advertized on the nameboards at Cambridge stat

  2. #62
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    May 2007
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    Cambridge, UK
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    Default Re: Looking for sheltered estuary setting in the East

    Quote Originally Posted by slawosz View Post
    And how about river Crouch, is it good for sailing, considering I don't want to leave it and sail on open sea?
    Why not? It's a good deal safer on the open sea!

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
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    205

    Default Re: Looking for sheltered estuary setting in the East

    Quote Originally Posted by AntarcticPilot View Post
    Anglia Ruskin, which has a campus at Cambridge, was formerly Cambridge College of Arts and Technology (a Polytechnic). Oddly, it is this University (and NOT THE Cambridge University!) that is advertized on the nameboards at Cambridge stat
    Correct

  4. #64
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    May 2007
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    Cambridge, UK
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    5,643

    Default Re: Looking for sheltered estuary setting in the East

    Quote Originally Posted by Old Harry View Post
    Correct
    I know - it was CCAT when I was at the University! One college of Cambridge University does have a non-University history - Homerton College was a college of education before it became part of the University.

    Both were well known to students at Cambridge University in my day - because of the gender imbalance of the University (since mainly corrected; I am pleased to say that my college (Churchill) was one of the first three to go co-ed), places which accommodated young women were of great interest! Most people knew someone with a girlfriend at one of these two or at Addenbrookes.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Looking for sheltered estuary setting in the East

    Quote Originally Posted by AntarcticPilot View Post
    Why not? It's a good deal safer on the open sea!
    Why so?
    I mean, I understand that on bad weather it much, much safer, but I am not planning to sail above F4, plus I will sail sometimes with my 7yo son, so probably for beginning I would be quite uncomfortable. I have sea and sailing experience, but I am not confident enough not to be within several minutes from shore....
    To be honest I would like to sail on the lakes, but there is nothing around London - and dinghies in gravel pits are fun but I would like to be able to sail without changing direction for longer than 2 minutes
    So Blackwater or Stour are better for kind of sailing I described above?

  6. #66
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    May 2007
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    Cambridge, UK
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    Default Re: Looking for sheltered estuary setting in the East

    Quote Originally Posted by slawosz View Post
    Why so?
    I mean, I understand that on bad weather it much, much safer, but I am not planning to sail above F4, plus I will sail sometimes with my 7yo son, so probably for beginning I would be quite uncomfortable. I have sea and sailing experience, but I am not confident enough not to be within several minutes from shore....
    To be honest I would like to sail on the lakes, but there is nothing around London - and dinghies in gravel pits are fun but I would like to be able to sail without changing direction for longer than 2 minutes
    So Blackwater or Stour are better for kind of sailing I described above?
    Sea room is the first essential for safety, and sea room is exactly what you don't have in the estuaries of the East Coast. Suppose your engine fails (they do!)? Given the combination of wind and tide in a river, you may not be able to make progress to windward - and shoal water is all around you. Or what if your force 4 suddenly changes to a force 6 - as it could well do in a gust. Again, lack of sea room could be your undoing. Of course, you can anchor, but then, in the rivers you are in proximity to many other vessels, both pleasure and commercial craft.

    Of course, a competent sailor CAN deal with all the hazards of sailing in confined waters, but all those hazards are MUCH less in open water! "We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea" by Arthur Ransome portrays exactly this situation, where a group of children know they are safe (if uncomfortable) because they know which way to head to gain sea room. The same scenario in more enclosed waters would result in them running aground, and potentially being wrecked.

    In general I am relaxed and happy when at sea, distant from hazards, but nervous and tense when in confined waters.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Looking for sheltered estuary setting in the East

    Quote Originally Posted by AntarcticPilot View Post
    Sea room is the first essential for safety, and sea room is exactly what you don't have in the estuaries of the East Coast. Suppose your engine fails (they do!)? Given the combination of wind and tide in a river, you may not be able to make progress to windward - and shoal water is all around you. Or what if your force 4 suddenly changes to a force 6 - as it could well do in a gust. Again, lack of sea room could be your undoing. Of course, you can anchor, but then, in the rivers you are in proximity to many other vessels, both pleasure and commercial craft.

    Of course, a competent sailor CAN deal with all the hazards of sailing in confined waters, but all those hazards are MUCH less in open water! "We Didn't Mean To Go To Sea" by Arthur Ransome portrays exactly this situation, where a group of children know they are safe (if uncomfortable) because they know which way to head to gain sea room. The same scenario in more enclosed waters would result in them running aground, and potentially being wrecked.

    In general I am relaxed and happy when at sea, distant from hazards, but nervous and tense when in confined waters.
    @AntarcticPilot, I really appreciate your input here . Now I see options:
    - sailing only during favourable conditions
    - not sailing on East Coast for some time and put my son on Optymist (if he will like it)
    - buy a small trailer sailer and explore 'boring' waters like Rutland.... And sometimes East Coast rivers (on perfect weather)

    But from the other side I heard opinions that lot of people just sail on Orwell, Blackwater or Stour, without exiting to see. This waters seems to be safe and sheltered. And I thing worst thing that might happen is just hitting the mud, which is not end of the world on the bilge keel I suppose. Of course, tide might make things trickier, but there are no rocks to worry about etc.

    Maybe someone have some suggestion how to make (almost) hassle free sailing on something bigger than gravel pit for person living in London?

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    Posts
    205

    Default Re: Looking for sheltered estuary setting in the East

    Quote Originally Posted by slawosz View Post
    @AntarcticPilot, I really appreciate your input here . Now I see options:
    - sailing only during favourable conditions
    - not sailing on East Coast for some time and put my son on Optymist (if he will like it)
    - buy a small trailer sailer and explore 'boring' waters like Rutland.... And sometimes East Coast rivers (on perfect weather)

    But from the other side I heard opinions that lot of people just sail on Orwell, Blackwater or Stour, without exiting to see. This waters seems to be safe and sheltered. And I thing worst thing that might happen is just hitting the mud, which is not end of the world on the bilge keel I suppose. Of course, tide might make things trickier, but there are no rocks to worry about etc.

    Maybe someone have some suggestion how to make (almost) hassle free sailing on something bigger than gravel pit for person living in London?
    Bilge keelers tend to stay in the mud,once in embedded in it, fin keelers are able to heel over & reduce their draft, thus less likely to stay in the mud.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    5,643

    Default Re: Looking for sheltered estuary setting in the East

    Quote Originally Posted by slawosz View Post
    @AntarcticPilot, I really appreciate your input here . Now I see options:
    - sailing only during favourable conditions
    - not sailing on East Coast for some time and put my son on Optymist (if he will like it)
    - buy a small trailer sailer and explore 'boring' waters like Rutland.... And sometimes East Coast rivers (on perfect weather)

    But from the other side I heard opinions that lot of people just sail on Orwell, Blackwater or Stour, without exiting to see. This waters seems to be safe and sheltered. And I thing worst thing that might happen is just hitting the mud, which is not end of the world on the bilge keel I suppose. Of course, tide might make things trickier, but there are no rocks to worry about etc.

    Maybe someone have some suggestion how to make (almost) hassle free sailing on something bigger than gravel pit for person living in London?
    I think you're confusing "sheltered" with "safe". Safety at sea depends on many factors, of which shelter is one, and not the least important. But you always need to consider "what if" scenarios, and then other things like the limited sea room, strong tidal currents and busy, crowded water come to light. At sea, once out of shipping channels and in water deep enough for your boat, you are (in general) much less likely to get into difficulties than in confined waters with a lot of traffic. A factor I didn't mention before is that at sea, the wind tends to be much steadier and consistent than it is near the shore.

    Even Rutland Water and gravel pits have their own dangers; people die in the latter on a regular basis when swimming in hot weather!

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Burnham-on-Crouch, UK
    Posts
    549

    Default Re: Looking for sheltered estuary setting in the East

    Hi,

    I live in Burnham-on-Crouch and, sadly, from the point of view of yacht sailing, I have to agree with Tam Lin. It was until about 10 years ago, a Mecca for yacht racing on the East Coast, but this was lost when yachts got bigger. When I first raced here, a Stella (LOA 25' 10") was a decent sized yacht, equally capable of the North Sea race or tacking up river from Burnham round the cans. As yachts grew in size, the local clubs insisted on sending class ! yachts up river for some of the races in Burnham Week and the Sail East Crouch regatta, which just accelerated the fall off in visiting yachts. This, coupled with the general fall off in yacht racing has led to the Crouch becoming more of a place for open keel boat racing than yacht racing. It's still workable for yacht cruising, particularly with smaller yachts under 30' LOA, but doesn't hold a candle to the Orwell in terms of possible places to go for a day sail.

    Despite living in Burnham, I keep my yacht on the Orwell and have a clinker dinghy here in Burnham for exploring the 2 rivers (Crouch and Roach) and their creeks.

    That's my take on it

    Peter

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