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Thread: My Introduction

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    10

    Default My Introduction

    Hello,
    I'm fairly new to outboards but this forum has been helpful in figuring out my 2017-build Suzuki DF2.5S. It's only seen freshwater since new but I have a bear of a time getting it started...sometimes. I'm in the northeast US and it's a lake engine on the back of my older Coleman Scanoe and when it runs, it's a pleasure to operate. When it doesn't, I want to throw it into the water. I'm reading up on some threads now and will probably have some questions for the more experienced.
    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Location
    Lancashire
    Posts
    1,389

    Default Re: My Introduction

    Welcome to the forum, I hope you find it as useful as I have over the years.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
    Posts
    19,814

    Default Re: My Introduction

    There are really only two things to remember with the 2.5 Suzuki. In-line fuel filter needs to be inserted just before carb and carb needs to be drained through the drain valve before engine is left unused for more than a week or two.

    Richard

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: My Introduction

    Well, this engine has me beat. Itís a fuel starvation issue. New spark plug, I tested the resistance and ground and when I plug it in un-seated in the cylinder I can feel the impulse and the air cleaner is unobstructed.

    I removed the carb and the bowl was clean (no sediment) and the float moved freely. I removed the #62 screw and the hole was clear and the jet/holes were clean. The intake was like new. I always used ethanol-free fuel for the 8 hours I ran it and if I suck/blow on the fuel lines they are unobstructed. What am I missing? Is there a way I can test the fuel pump? I see the intake and outflow and theyíre clean and unobstructed but donít know what the third line is for.

    I suppose it could also be a kill switch failure but I donít know how to test that. What has me puzzled is how it ran so well in July and I canít even get it to start now.

    Any leads or ideas would be greatfully appreciated.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: My Introduction

    This engine continues to puzzle me. I put on an in-line filter after the shutoff and before the fuel pump. I blew air through all the lines from the shutoff to the carburetor and all were clean. I opened up the carb and noticed the float spring was broken and replaced that and then replaced the main jet with a #66. The nozzle and all passages were clear. It looked like a carb that had ten hours of non-ethanol gas run through it. Still wonít start. When I take the hose from the tank off and try to blow through it, I canít get the fuel to move. If I take the inlet hose off from the carb, Iím able to blow fuel through the line. Any other ideas?

    Both local dealers have told me to wait until the spring and Iíd really like to have a functional engine before then.

    Thanks in advance.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Home: Kent. Boat: Chichester
    Posts
    43,553

    Default Re: My Introduction

    Quote Originally Posted by mu2bdriver View Post
    Well, this engine has me beat. It’s a fuel starvation issue. New spark plug, I tested the resistance and ground and when I plug it in un-seated in the cylinder I can feel the impulse and the air cleaner is unobstructed.

    I removed the carb and the bowl was clean (no sediment) and the float moved freely. I removed the #62 screw and the hole was clear and the jet/holes were clean. The intake was like new. I always used ethanol-free fuel for the 8 hours I ran it and if I suck/blow on the fuel lines they are unobstructed. What am I missing? Is there a way I can test the fuel pump? I see the intake and outflow and they’re clean and unobstructed but don’t know what the third line is for.

    I suppose it could also be a kill switch failure but I don’t know how to test that. What has me puzzled is how it ran so well in July and I can’t even get it to start now.

    Any leads or ideas would be greatfully appreciated.
    Quote Originally Posted by mu2bdriver View Post
    This engine continues to puzzle me. I put on an in-line filter after the shutoff and before the fuel pump. I blew air through all the lines from the shutoff to the carburetor and all were clean. I opened up the carb and noticed the float spring was broken and replaced that and then replaced the main jet with a #66. The nozzle and all passages were clear. It looked like a carb that had ten hours of non-ethanol gas run through it. Still won’t start. When I take the hose from the tank off and try to blow through it, I can’t get the fuel to move. If I take the inlet hose off from the carb, I’m able to blow fuel through the line. Any other ideas?

    Both local dealers have told me to wait until the spring and I’d really like to have a functional engine before then.

    Thanks in advance.
    The third hose is the vacuum pulse hose that drives the fuel pump. ( fuel pumps on 4 strokes are more often mechanically operated from the camshaft but this one appears to be a vacuum pulse driven pump similar to 2 strokes)

    You should be able to test the pump by cranking the engine with the hose pulled off the carb. You should get spurts of fuel from the hose.

    You say you cannot blow through the fuel line from the tank unless you also pull the line off the carb, if I understand correctly?

    You should be able to do this unless the carb bowl is full and the float is closing the needle valve.

    I think on this basis, unless the carb bowl is full, you need to investigate the float and needle valve operation. The broken spring on the float which you replaced I believe clips the needle to the float arm, am I correct? Have you fitted this all correctly? The purpose of this is to pull the needle away from its seat when the float drops. Soft tip needles tend to stick on their seats otherwise.


    Also check that you have a good spark. It should jump about 1 cm in free air. If it does it confirms that the ignition and the kill switch are OK. If you have no spark then the first thing to look at is the kill switch. In order to run the switch must be open, It closes to short the ignition to ground in order the stop the engine. It has 2 electrical connections. One is grounded the other is connected to the ignition module ( "igniter")

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Location
    Connecticut, USA
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: My Introduction

    Quote Originally Posted by VicS View Post
    The third hose is the vacuum pulse hose that drives the fuel pump. ( fuel pumps on 4 strokes are more often mechanically operated from the camshaft but this one appears to be a vacuum pulse driven pump similar to 2 strokes)

    You should be able to test the pump by cranking the engine with the hose pulled off the carb. You should get spurts of fuel from the hose.

    You say you cannot blow through the fuel line from the tank unless you also pull the line off the carb, if I understand correctly?

    You should be able to do this unless the carb bowl is full and the float is closing the needle valve.

    I think on this basis, unless the carb bowl is full, you need to investigate the float and needle valve operation. The broken spring on the float which you replaced I believe clips the needle to the float arm, am I correct? Have you fitted this all correctly? The purpose of this is to pull the needle away from its seat when the float drops. Soft tip needles tend to stick on their seats otherwise.


    Also check that you have a good spark. It should jump about 1 cm in free air. If it does it confirms that the ignition and the kill switch are OK. If you have no spark then the first thing to look at is the kill switch. In order to run the switch must be open, It closes to short the ignition to ground in order the stop the engine. It has 2 electrical connections. One is grounded the other is connected to the ignition module ( "igniter")
    Hello @VicS...

    Yes, when I remove the hose from the carb inlet and pull the cord I get fuel spurting from the line.

    Correct. If I remove the line from the fuel tank (just downstream of the shutoff) and the line from the carb inlet, I can blow air through the tank end line and it shoots out the carb inlet attachment hose.

    After countless pulls, I got curious about the bowl and how much fuel was in it. I opened the drain valve and fuel drained from it. It was tough to ascertain how much fuel should have drained out of it but it was a steady flow; certainly not dry. If there was sufficient fuel in the bowl and the float was elevated which would have moved the needle valve upward and therefore closed the carb to any further fuel then that would make sense why I could not blow into the line and get any fuel movement. I just don't know how much fuel is enough to get that float moved up and the needle valve moved upward.

    The spring which I replaced hooks around the float pivot arm and outside (below) the float (when viewed from the bottom). The spring does not have enough strength to hold the float up but seems to just help the float to move more smoothly. It's really a tiny spring made of tiny gauge wire. It is fitted correctly based upon other pictures I've seen online and based upon the logic of the operation of the system. I think that the purpose of the needle and the small diameter wire is to smooth out the movements of the float and not have it operate erratically as the float might bounce up and down without it. That last sentence is my conjecture, but suffice to say, I do believe it is installed correctly.

    I believe the spark plug is good. It's properly gapped, and when I remove the plug from the engine but put it in it's harness and pull the engine, I can feel the spark as I hold the plug harness in my hand and when I have a help push the kill switch, I don't feel it.

    When I cleaned the carb, I made particular attention to clean the float and needle areas and they were spotless. I'm thinking that the next step for me will be to remove the air intake (with the carb attached) and try some ether to try to get a pop out of it. I didn't try any starting fluid before because I wanted to clean the carb out first but if I can get it started with ether, I'd be happy to watch the intake area to see how the fuel moved out of the main jet with throttle movements.

    That said, do you know what purpose the hose from the inboard side of the air intake serves? It's the short grey colored line from the inboard side of the black air intake housing to the power head.

    Thank you again.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    530

    Default Re: My Introduction

    Post deleted - VicS had already made my point
    Last edited by morgandlm; 19-11-18 at 09:32.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Solent, UK
    Posts
    4,624

    Default Re: My Introduction

    Everything VicS has said is appropriate. However, there's a poster here, I can't remember his pen name, who regularly pops up when small 4-strokes are mentioned. He has advised fitting a slightly larger jet in the past. I've had a quick search here but not called anything up, perhaps someone else knows....
    Grow old disgracefully, it's more fun

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Home: Kent. Boat: Chichester
    Posts
    43,553

    Default Re: My Introduction

    Quote Originally Posted by Topcat47 View Post
    Everything VicS has said is appropriate. However, there's a poster here, I can't remember his pen name, who regularly pops up when small 4-strokes are mentioned. He has advised fitting a slightly larger jet in the past. I've had a quick search here but not called anything up, perhaps someone else knows....
    Steve66, aka Steve Evans of Evans Marine Services ?

    http://www.ybw.com/forums/member.php?70826-steve66

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