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  1. #111
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Fleetwood marina
    Posts
    723

    Default Re: Is this colregs or RRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    Glad to hear that clubs like Marconi are doing good things.
    I don't know whether less people actually want to race.
    Less people seem happy with the racing that is on offer?
    Even Flaming keeps saying the rating system needs changing.


    Hi I am the happy sailor who loves racing around the cans with 6 or 7 other like minded people in cruisers, but would love to take part in some more competitive racing, but to be honest I am frightened to death of people just like you, I assume you didn't start your first race as crew or skipper knowing it all, so how are we supposed to progress up to your standard.
    So that we will feel competent enough to race in the same race or course as you.
    One of the things that concern me is when approaching a mark who decides how many boat lengths is the boat closing on you it's not so much the rule I am concerned with just the distance surely this is just guess work?
    I am one who starts late sometimes by design mostly bad timing to avoid getting in the way, knowing the rules is one thing but knowing how to put them into practice on the water is a different matter. Surely you can understand that you will come up against competitors who haven't made it up to your standard yet but perhaps will soon, don't they deserve some consideration. It seems you think that nobody should be on the same course as you, if they don't have the same abilities as you.
    Mike.

    Racing is quite diverse. Maybe what needs looking at is what experience some racing is actually providing?
    I enjoy the tactical challenges of racing. Not just boats and rule, but also wind and tide tactics. But that is easily ruined if there are boats on the course not respecting the rules.
    I enjoy getting the best speed out of a boat, but you get so much more feedback on this in OD racing. You at least need a rating system which you have faith in.
    Take away those two aspects and you might just as well go for a 'cruise in company' or rally.

  2. #112
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,244

    Default Re: Is this colregs or RRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pagetslady View Post
    Hi I am the happy sailor who loves racing around the cans with 6 or 7 other like minded people in cruisers, but would love to take part in some more competitive racing, but to be honest I am frightened to death of people just like you, I assume you didn't start your first race as crew or skipper knowing it all, so how are we supposed to progress up to your standard.
    So that we will feel competent enough to race in the same race or course as you.
    One of the things that concern me is when approaching a mark who decides how many boat lengths is the boat closing on you it's not so much the rule I am concerned with just the distance surely this is just guess work?
    I am one who starts late sometimes by design mostly bad timing to avoid getting in the way, knowing the rules is one thing but knowing how to put them into practice on the water is a different matter. Surely you can understand that you will come up against competitors who haven't made it up to your standard yet but perhaps will soon, don't they deserve some consideration. It seems you think that nobody should be on the same course as you, if they don't have the same abilities as you.
    Mike.
    Hi Mike,

    It is very easy to be put off by the rules but they're actually your friend if you put the time in to learning them and you race in a fleet where others have done the same. Believe it or not, the apparently aggressive tactics you might get in the pre-start of a class 0 or class 1 fleet is actually a lot more organised and safer than racing further down the ladder where you have the 'cheat' who is used to getting away with it or the skipper who has never bothered to learn the rules.

    You question about mark room and the zone is a good example. It is three boat lengths of the length of first boat in the overlap that reaches that distance from the mark. Of course it's not painted on the water so it is a matter of judgement/guesswork. But the rules cover this and the onus is on a boat to prove it got an overlap just in time or broke one just in time. So what you do in practice is hail the other boat 6 or 8 boat lengths out. If you have an overlap say so. And keep saying it as you keep the overlap up to the mark. You have to do it right, so you'll likely need someone on the bow. Similarly, if you're ahead and there's no overlap, hail that before you reach the zone.

  3. #113
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    falmouth
    Posts
    13,957

    Default Re: Is this colregs or RRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpdsn View Post
    Hi Mike,

    It is very easy to be put off by the rules but they're actually your friend if you put the time in to learning them and you race in a fleet where others have done the same. Believe it or not, the apparently aggressive tactics you might get in the pre-start of a class 0 or class 1 fleet is actually a lot more organised and safer than racing further down the ladder where you have the 'cheat' who is used to getting away with it or the skipper who has never bothered to learn the rules.
    As someone who competitively "cruises in company" to use IRC terms, I have to agree. On one memorable occasion I witnessed two boats on different tacks converging. The boat on port shouted "starboard" and the boat on starboard tacked. OK it was a chaps girlfriend helming and she was new to the whole idea but it made for a good laugh when the boyfriend lept up the companionway and saw what had happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpdsn View Post
    You question about mark room and the zone is a good example. It is three boat lengths of the length of first boat in the overlap that reaches that distance from the mark. Of course it's not painted on the water so it is a matter of judgement/guesswork. But the rules cover this and the onus is on a boat to prove it got an overlap just in time or broke one just in time. So what you do in practice is hail the other boat 6 or 8 boat lengths out. If you have an overlap say so. And keep saying it as you keep the overlap up to the mark. You have to do it right, so you'll likely need someone on the bow. Similarly, if you're ahead and there's no overlap, hail that before you reach the zone.
    Easier said than done. And the "prove it" bit is something that many wish to avoid getting involved in. Its for the barrack room lawyers amongst us.
    this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

  4. #114
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    159

    Default Re: Is this colregs or RRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by birdseye View Post
    On one memorable occasion I witnessed two boats on different tacks converging. The boat on port shouted "starboard" and the boat on starboard tacked. OK it was a chaps girlfriend helming and she was new to the whole idea but it made for a good laugh when the boyfriend lept up the companionway and saw what had happened.
    Hilarious.
    Or a breach of Rule 2, I'm not sure which.

  5. #115
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Me Edinburgh, boat JWD
    Posts
    4,905

    Default Re: Is this colregs or RRS?

    Indubitably a breach of RRS 2.
    One way of gauging your 3 boat-lengths distance is to consider it as a time e.g. for a 10m boat at 6kts 3 boat-lengths take 10 seconds; at 5kts, 12 seconds. Practice counting 10 seconds (or whatever number the calculation gives you for length and speed) sailing away from and towards a buoy to calibrate your brain and eye.

  6. #116
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,244

    Default Re: Is this colregs or RRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by birdseye View Post

    Easier said than done. And the "prove it" bit is something that many wish to avoid getting involved in. Its for the barrack room lawyers amongst us.
    It's common practice and works pretty well. By establishing that there is or is not an overlap before you reach three boat lengths usually settles the matter. Where it goes wrong is when someone tries to claim an overlap from the cockpit - the counter argument of how could you tell is difficult to refute.

    I'm not sure what your alternative to the recognised protest process is as you clearly believe it is not the way to settle disputes or misunderstandings regarding the rules. Are you advocating raising entry fees to pay for a fleet of on the water umpires?

  7. #117
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,244

    Default Re: Is this colregs or RRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by birdseye View Post
    As someone who competitively "cruises in company" to use IRC terms, I have to agree. On one memorable occasion I witnessed two boats on different tacks converging. The boat on port shouted "starboard" and the boat on starboard tacked. OK it was a chaps girlfriend helming and she was new to the whole idea but it made for a good laugh when the boyfriend lept up the companionway and saw what had happened.
    That sounds like someone just having a bit of a joke in a non-serious race. Apart from anything else if he was trying to win a proper race what was the boyfriend doing down below.

  8. #118
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Me Edinburgh, boat JWD
    Posts
    4,905

    Default Re: Is this colregs or RRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpdsn View Post
    Apart from anything else if he was trying to win a proper race what was the boyfriend doing down below.
    Packing the kite?

  9. #119
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    33,513

    Default Re: Is this colregs or RRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpdsn View Post
    That sounds like someone just having a bit of a joke in a non-serious race. Apart from anything else if he was trying to win a proper race what was the boyfriend doing down below.
    I've seen similar, people can confuse left and right when panicking.
    Let alone port and starboard.

    A wise racer would have spotted an inexperienced helm and kept clear.
    Never mind RRS Rule 2.
    Unwritten Rule 1 for having a good race is 'know who needs to be avoided'.
    UWR 2 is obviously 'Avoid them'.
    It's like riding a motorbike in traffic.

  10. #120
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    falmouth
    Posts
    13,957

    Default Re: Is this colregs or RRS?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpdsn View Post
    I'm not sure what your alternative to the recognised protest process is as you clearly believe it is not the way to settle disputes or misunderstandings regarding the rules. Are you advocating raising entry fees to pay for a fleet of on the water umpires?
    Good god NO.
    If I wanted to waste money , I could always go IRC. No I am simply saying that like a lot of others I dont go racing to have mock trials about the rules afterwards. If someone wants to protest me they can do and I'll do the turns whether I think they are justified or not. Life is to short to have conflict over something as trivial as yacht racing. Its supposed to be fun not life and death.

    But thats my view. others take a different line . We are free to have different approaches. Incidentally I dont think there is anything in the rule that says you have to contest a protest against you. Is there?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpdsn View Post
    That sounds like someone just having a bit of a joke in a non-serious race. Apart from anything else if he was trying to win a proper race what was the boyfriend doing down below.
    Courtesy of my Fair Lady " by god he's got it" . Racing where leg pulling in the bar afterwards is as important part of the fun
    this post is a personal opinion, and you should not base your actions on it.

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