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  1. #91
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Where life is good
    Posts
    12,199

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrishscorp View Post
    The EU measure will have been voted on by all member states including ours, we had X number of years granted to us to assist in the changeover as we have the longest coastline of a member state in the EU with some fueling points in small remote locations. Our government has had years to sort this out, it has chosen to park its head up its chuff, hence the court case
    What part of "the EU measure" takes it away from being something that was forced upon the UK by an authority over and above our parliament?
    Life is too short to drink bad wine.

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    11,133

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    The solution is simple. Where there is a demand for both full duty unmarked diesel and rebated marked diesel install a second bloody tank!

    A bunded 2500l tank with pump and meter costs from £1600 to £2000

    Installations with hose extensions will add to the cost, of course, but even so the cost is a long long way from being prohibitive.

    The marine industry has had 20 years to get its act together on this and has done virtually nothing (because the government allowed them to get away with doing nothing)

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Suffolk
    Posts
    4,128

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by chrishscorp View Post
    Now just to convince the marinas and harbours.....

    I had a conversation with a marina yesterday (Orwell). They averred that Fame FREE white is not available. Ie it cannot be bought. Presumably, at least until the law changes anyway, it will remain elusive.
    Don’t woffle

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    11,679

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bru View Post

    .....

    The marine industry has had 20 years to get its act together on this and has done virtually nothing (because the government allowed them to get away with doing nothing)
    The government only allowed them to get away with doing nothing because the RYA (and others) bullied the government into it. It would have been far easier for the government to simply enact the required changes to the law. There would have been no loss in revenue - in fact there would have been a small increase. There would have been virtually no loss of votes - the number of leisure sailors in the country is tiny in electoral terms. I could never understand why they were so willing to do what the RYA told them.

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    11,133

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Champagne Murphy View Post
    I had a conversation with a marina yesterday (Orwell). They averred that Fame FREE white is not available. Ie it cannot be bought. Presumably, at least until the law changes anyway, it will remain elusive.
    Well they are wrong

    What they probably really meant was that their local suppliers don't / won't supply it

    There is, apart from the costs etc of stocking an additional fuel type, a further disincentive to doing so in that the percentage of FAME they are required to add to the diesel they sell is calculated on total sales, regardless of type or duty

    So if they don't put FAME in diesel sold for marine use, they have to put more FAME in the rest of the diesel they sell

    So don't believe for a minute that your gas oil / red diesel is FAME free. Unless it's clearly being sold as such it almost certainly isn't.

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    160

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Solent Area
    Posts
    663

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk View Post
    What part of "the EU measure" takes it away from being something that was forced upon the UK by an authority over and above our parliament?
    It requires a unanimous descision..... All states agreeing, if we dont like a measure we object, have it changed or vote no, one dissenter = measure not put into force

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Suffolk
    Posts
    4,128

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    I sent an email yesterday to the Harbour Master at Ramsgate. Here is his reply, self explanatory really.

    Good morning Karl

    Thank you for your enquiry.

    We presently serve three fuels for leisure vessels at Ramsgate from our own fuel barge; these are FAME free red marine gas oil, white diesel (not FAME free) and unleaded petrol.

    We're hoping that in line with the recent ruling, the industry will soon be in a position to be able to provide FAME free white diesel.
    Kind regards



    Robert Brown.



    Harbour Master & Marine Operations Manager
    Don’t woffle

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Location
    Solent Area
    Posts
    663

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Champagne Murphy View Post
    I sent an email yesterday to the Harbour Master at Ramsgate. Here is his reply, self explanatory really.

    Good morning Karl

    Thank you for your enquiry.

    We presently serve three fuels for leisure vessels at Ramsgate from our own fuel barge; these are FAME free red marine gas oil, white diesel (not FAME free) and unleaded petrol.

    We're hoping that in line with the recent ruling, the industry will soon be in a position to be able to provide FAME free white diesel.
    Kind regards



    Robert Brown.



    Harbour Master & Marine Operations Manager

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Boat (now back in) the Clyde
    Posts
    4,843

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by maby View Post
    I think you would also have to work on HMRC and the EU Commission first. The current dispute is about the misselling of marked fuel - but selling unmarked fuel at zero duty would also be breaking rules. I think that the only solution that would be acceptable to the tax men and did not require two different supplies of fuel at the pumps would be to sell unmarked fuel at full duty to all takers and then process refunds for those that are eligible for reduced or zero duty. But I can't see HMRC being very enthusiastic about that - it would imply extra work for them.
    How come nobody else in Europe seems to have an issue in supplying white diesel to yachts. Never had an issue getting diesel anywhere I have been in France, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany etc (including FAME free white in many places). So how come we think this is such a soooooo tricky problem in the U.K.
    And haven’t seen huge numbers of fishing boats in Lake Solent marinas - nor frankly in most marinas round the U.K., rather the majority of commercial boats tend to be increasing concentrated in a few commercial ports. Plus often the commercial boat pumps have hoses too big for yachts, so have separate pumps anyway.

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