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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    515

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Surely the current issue arises because we are within the EU and not following EU agreements.
    If we are unfortunate enough to leave the EU then it seems unlikely that they will have any legal interest in how much our diesel costs us unless we have some new 'customs arrangement' that has the same requirements.So I think this is quite different to any Safety issue that they might pursue e.g. in date-checks on life jackets,flares etc. that they might pursue under some maritime agreement.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    11,137

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by awol View Post
    There is a difference in dispensing rules for petroleum spirit and gas oil - AIUI there is no limit for dispensing or transporting the latter in portable containers.
    Once we are out of the EU the government could revert to the duty free status for marked gas oil (a.k.a. red diesel) - aye, right!
    For clarity...

    There are limits on the transport and storage of gas oil and DERV but they are well beyond anything the leisure boater needs to concern themselves with

    However, as I have oft pointed out in the past there ARE strict limits on the quantity that can legally be dispensed on the forecourt and restrictions on the types of container permitted

    These restrictions are contained in the site licence and the usual default is a maximum of 2x5ltr plastic, 2x10ltr metal or 1x20ltr metal CE marked containers regardless of whether petrol or diesel is being dispensed

    (The limits, but not the container types, can be varied but rarely are)

    It is not the purchaser who is breaking the law if the limits are exceeded or other containers are used, it is the retailer who is in breach of their licence

    It is also necessary to take into account company policy which may impose further restrictions. Not uncommonly this is a ban on 20 litre metal containers because of the near impossibility of differentiating between CE marked containers (the ones with the cap locking pin) and standard "Jerry" cans

    Of course, as we all know, the restrictions are often ignored by forecourt staff and customers alike, and unmanned sites are rarely monitored as closely as they should be, but if the staff see it they are risking disciplinary action if they ignore it (and it could be, and from time to time is, a "test" purchase by Trading Standards (who carry out the enforcement duties of the Petroleum Officer responsible for issuing site licences)

    Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just telling it as it is. The rules are daft and inconsistently enforced but they are what they are!

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Portland
    Posts
    1,487

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Regarding red diesel use in France in the future:

    I remember the last time this all blew up over the problems in Belgium and the scuttlebutt cruise was due in Cherbourg, Magli went to the french customs and other officialdom to get confirmation that we would not be fined. They were really concerned about the loss of revenue. So, I am hoping that in some areas of the EU business pressures may make a difference.

    However, it has to be said that Macron has been quite vocal in not condescending to British demands so far.

    We shall wait and see ....
    I used to be indecisive, but now I'm not so sure...

  4. #44
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    7,026

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    dont go to Belgium

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    11,684

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by robertj View Post
    dont go to Belgium
    I've no intention of going - went there once many years ago and that should be enough for anyone....

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Southampton
    Posts
    34,602

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by bluerm166 View Post
    If we are unfortunate enough to leave the EU then it seems unlikely that they will have any legal interest in how much our diesel costs us
    They will still very much have an interest in the colour of fuel in our tanks when in their country, though.

    In or out of the EU is not really relevant to that; there has been at least one American yacht fined in Belgium for having on board marked fuel bought elsewhere.

    Pete

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,277

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by prv View Post
    They will still very much have an interest in the colour of fuel in our tanks when in their country, though.

    In or out of the EU is not really relevant to that; there has been at least one American yacht fined in Belgium for having on board marked fuel bought elsewhere.

    Pete
    Indeed, there does seem a general lack of comprehension about this.

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Celtic Fringe
    Posts
    12,703

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Topcat47 View Post
    A tankful of Red lasts me a season at least on the boat.
    A tankful (100l) of Red lasts me about five years! I caught the bug last year and have no plans to catch it again.

    Some interesting points on this YouTube talk.
    Cynical Scottish almost retired engineer.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Where life is good
    Posts
    12,220

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by wizard View Post
    However, it has to be said that Macron has been quite vocal in not condescending to British demands so far.

    We shall wait and see ....
    I wonder about the French economy in the Haute Savoie if he succeds in disrupting UK skiers? As you say, wait and see,
    Life is too short to drink bad wine.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Where life is good
    Posts
    12,220

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by macd View Post
    I very much doubt the rules are aimed specifically at any group of users, but at illegal use of duty-free diesel in general. No doubt many would be appalled if there weren't such controls.
    (The last check I saw was on Greenwich Common. I doubt it left many boaters feeling persecuted.)
    The EU insisted on applying tax to leisure boat owners. Up till then our government seems to have considered the revenue that may be collected was not worth the effort of a applying tax on leisure boat owners. Which .i posed the question. Is taxing red fuel a significant source of revenue?

    Besides which the EU is self contradictory. They apply fuel tax on lorries carrying fish on roads because they are being transported. But they do not apply tax on the boat carrying the same fish from sea to shore.
    Life is too short to drink bad wine.

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