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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Celtic Fringe
    Posts
    12,703

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk View Post
    They apply fuel tax on lorries carrying fish on roads because they are being transported. But they do not apply tax on the boat carrying the same fish from sea to shore.
    That would be silly, would fuel used catching fish be taxed at a different rate?

    Running a fishing boat is very different to running a lorry, but you knew that.
    Cynical Scottish almost retired engineer.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Bricks & mortar: Italy. Me & boat: Aegean
    Posts
    9,978

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk View Post
    The EU insisted on applying tax to leisure boat owners.
    No doubt you can contrive a rational argument against that. I can't.
    All epigrams are false

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    515

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by prv View Post
    They will still very much have an interest in the colour of fuel in our tanks when in their country, though.

    In or out of the EU is not really relevant to that; there has been at least one American yacht fined in Belgium for having on board marked fuel bought elsewhere.

    Pete
    You seem to know more about this than the RYA.
    There is no 'lack of comprehension' about this i.e what will happen if we have no new comparable arrangements with the EU.If indeed the American yacht was correctly fined (in EU terms) then it would be because they were deemed to be carrying contraband goods.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Me Edinburgh, boat JWD
    Posts
    4,863

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk View Post
    The EU insisted on applying tax to leisure boat owners.
    You just don't get it, do you? It's sweet F.A. to do with taxing leisure boat owners, they are just collateral to the principle that marked fuel can only be used in certain defined areas and leisure boating ain't one. The EU don't care how much tax you pay on it, it is the simple fact of marked diesel in your tanks that is illegal.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    1,557

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Topcat47 View Post
    I'm not keen to fund a test case, are you?
    May I draw your attention to the fact that for many years white road diesel has been used in boats all over Europe. You would hardly be a test case.
    There do not seem to be any more problems with diesel bug over here than in the UK. Certainly it is not a burning topic among yachtspeople over here, far less I would say than in the UK, if these forums are anything to go by.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,359

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by westhinder View Post
    May I draw your attention to the fact that for many years white road diesel has been used in boats all over Europe. You would hardly be a test case.
    There do not seem to be any more problems with diesel bug over here than in the UK. Certainly it is not a burning topic among yachtspeople over here, far less I would say than in the UK, if these forums are anything to go by.
    This may vary across Europe. Up here, shore side filling stations, at least the ones I have encountered, carry the sign 'FAME-free diesel". This has been the case for the last five years or so. I think the reason is that about ten years ago boaters did indeed experience increasing bug problems because of the bio content in road diesel. (Tax on the fuel has nothing to do with this, BTW the fuel intended for commercial vessels is dyed green here).
    My guess is that the potential problems of a rising bio content in diesel in the future will be solved by introducing newer technologies, like hydrogenated vegetable oil, HVO.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Solent
    Posts
    2,956

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Ignoring the rights and wrongs, What exactly do we do to deal with this?

    My tank is fairly new and has had red it in. I guess that any white I put in will go red, for years to come. How do I avoid getting fined, without having to remove and replace my tank?

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    11,684

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillM View Post
    Ignoring the rights and wrongs, What exactly do we do to deal with this?

    My tank is fairly new and has had red it in. I guess that any white I put in will go red, for years to come. How do I avoid getting fined, without having to remove and replace my tank?
    I guess (hope?) that we will get the grace period that the rest of the EU got in order to get the concentration down to an acceptable level before we are subject to any action. The EU didn't force the introduction of the ban overnight - our continental counterparts got several years of warning before anyone was prosecuted. If you have your tank full of marked fuel, you will need to run it close to empty and refill with unmarked three times to get the level of marker down to a level where the test will not be conclusive.

    There is, of course, a risk that the EU authorities will simply point out that we had several years to make the transition along with all the other EU members and frittered them away - we have the RYA to thank for that!

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Solent
    Posts
    2,956

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by maby View Post
    I guess (hope?) that we will get the grace period that the rest of the EU got in order to get the concentration down to an acceptable level before we are subject to any action. The EU didn't force the introduction of the ban overnight - our continental counterparts got several years of warning before anyone was prosecuted. If you have your tank full of marked fuel, you will need to run it close to empty and refill with unmarked three times to get the level of marker down to a level where the test will not be conclusive.

    There is, of course, a risk that the EU authorities will simply point out that we had several years to make the transition along with all the other EU members and frittered them away - we have the RYA to thank for that!
    Thanks Maby, I am sure I can do that before heading over the channel. I do have a few 10 and 5l containers, which it may just be easier to chuck away and buy new ones - slightly irritating as I only got them this year, but better to be safe ....

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    3,368

    Default Re: Red Diesel - UK Government loses.

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    But at least it will be easy to empty the tank into a road vehicle to avoid excessive storage times.

    Cars for sit on forecourts unused for weeks on end. Problems are few.
    I suspect the recirculating fuel system and decent tank design, which means any free water is removed whenever the engine runs, removes the problem?
    Diesel bug has been around a lot longer than bio-diesel.
    Really my boat holds 1300l of fuel and best practice is to try to keep it full to minimise consendation. Please explain how easy that will be.
    Last edited by Seven Spades; 28-10-18 at 17:05.

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