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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    2,292

    Default Re: Pride and joy up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream believer View Post
    Be positive
    If it was adequately insured it might have done him a favour.
    Selling second hand boats is not always easy these days.
    This. Right at the end of the season too. Just as likely to be good news as bad. My sympathies, if it's the latter.
    Last edited by Mark-1; 31-10-18 at 10:42.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
    Posts
    8,340

    Default Re: Pride and joy up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark-1 View Post
    This. Right at the end of the season too. Just as likely to be good news as bad. My sympathies, if it's the latter.
    Steady on - Nov 5 is nearly here. You will be giving forumites ideas. It is bad enough with flares going off 40 miles inland . CG & RNLI will be run ragged.
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Celtic Fringe
    Posts
    12,718

    Default Re: Pride and joy up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven Spades View Post
    He was on board, he tried to put the fire out with buckets of water. He said he didn't know what caused it which baffles me. A small motorboat in front of us took him off at the bow of the boat. As the motorboat took him away I heard a bang which I took to be the gas cylinder, but no one would take a chance that I was wrong so they let it burn as they didn't want to approach it. Hamble point offered to send a boat with a pump but were told to stay away.
    If it was the gas cylinder then I suspect the damage would be far greater, think small bomb.

    i watched, from a safe distance six firefighters move a hot cylinder to a pond to cool it, the look of relief on their faces was clear to see when they completed that task.
    Cynical Scottish almost retired engineer.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    3,368

    Default Re: Pride and joy up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy View Post
    If it was the gas cylinder then I suspect the damage would be far greater, think small bomb.

    i watched, from a safe distance six firefighters move a hot cylinder to a pond to cool it, the look of relief on their faces was clear to see when they completed that task.
    Possibly but the owner said it was a small cylinder and given the size of the boat I would not be surprised if it was a 907 or smaller. Then it may not have been full. Then if the bang I heard was not the cylinder why didn't it subsequently go off when the boat because an inferno?

    I am sure I heard the gas go bang, but it may have been something else on board.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    17,893

    Default Re: Pride and joy up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by Seven Spades View Post
    Then it may not have been full. Then if the bang I heard was not the cylinder why didn't it subsequently go off when the boat because an inferno?
    I think, and I am open to correction, that propane bottle burst because of a combination of over-pressure and heat-softened metal. You get a blast of gas out of it which will probably catch fire as it comes out and give you a fireball, but no explosion.

    Acetylene, on the other hand, will detonate inside the intact cylinder, which gives a remarkably powerful bomb and is why fire services are very, very, very cautious about fires in garages and the like.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  6. #16
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    5,692

    Default Re: Pride and joy up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    I think, and I am open to correction, that propane bottle burst because of a combination of over-pressure and heat-softened metal. You get a blast of gas out of it which will probably catch fire as it comes out and give you a fireball, but no explosion.

    Acetylene, on the other hand, will detonate inside the intact cylinder, which gives a remarkably powerful bomb and is why fire services are very, very, very cautious about fires in garages and the like.
    So propane deflagrates but acetylene detonates?

  7. #17
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    33,152

    Default Re: Pride and joy up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    I think, and I am open to correction, that propane bottle burst because of a combination of over-pressure and heat-softened metal. You get a blast of gas out of it which will probably catch fire as it comes out and give you a fireball, but no explosion.

    Acetylene, on the other hand, will detonate inside the intact cylinder, which gives a remarkably powerful bomb and is why fire services are very, very, very cautious about fires in garages and the like.
    Welding acetylene is dissolved in acetone. The acetone can explode if heated.
    Not sure of the chemistry, but the reaction doesn't need external oxygen.
    A camping gaz cylinder is designed to fail if heated. Not exactly fail safe, but jets of gas which won't have enough oxygen to properly explode.
    Acetylene cylinders are also normally paired with an oxygen cylinder, which is not your best friend in a fire if there's anything flammable left (i.e. you!).

    But even something like a can of WD40 can make an impressive bang in a fire. You really don't want to be sharing a boat with any of that going on.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    17,893

    Default Re: Pride and joy up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by AntarcticPilot View Post
    So propane deflagrates but acetylene detonates?
    Yes, I think so. Acetylene cylinders will go bang at 2 bar, given a suitable thermal or shock initiation - hence storing it in solution rather than as compressed gas, as lw395 says. No oxygen necessary, so propagation is presumably by shock wave.

    https://www.boconline.co.uk/en/image...410-262700.pdf

    A blast of pure propane will deflagrate, I think, but a suitable propane-air mixture might detonate. Dunno. There is also the possibility of a BLEVE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boilin...apor_explosion) without any chemical explosion at all.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,280

    Default Re: Pride and joy up in smoke

    Having seen the detonation (and high velocity fragments) when a bloody fool decided to dispose of an out of date flare in a garden bonfire I wouldn't discount that/those a a source of a 'pop'.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    The North West, either England, Wales or France
    Posts
    2,693

    Default Re: Pride and joy up in smoke

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    Yes, I think so. Acetylene cylinders will go bang at 2 bar, given a suitable thermal or shock initiation - hence storing it in solution rather than as compressed gas, as lw395 says. No oxygen necessary, so propagation is presumably by shock wave.

    https://www.boconline.co.uk/en/image...410-262700.pdf

    A blast of pure propane will deflagrate, I think, but a suitable propane-air mixture might detonate. Dunno. There is also the possibility of a BLEVE (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boilin...apor_explosion) without any chemical explosion at all.
    Acetylene may decompose in a self-sustaining reaction after only moderate heating or shock, hence the 24 hour cooling in a dam (or pond) after any thermal exposure. By comparison, an LPG bottle popping is very tame.

    http://www.hse.gov.uk/fireandexplosion/acetylene.htm

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