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  1. #71
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    33,128

    Default Re: Classic GRP Yachts; this is mine, where is yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tranona View Post

    You could not build an AWB with plank on frame construction and modern hull shapes only came about because of the characteristics of GRP and other composites including wood/epoxy.
    I think you could.
    If you look away from the Uk, there are some pre-war hull shapes built in carvel which are very flat bottomed. Often centreboarders. You'd have to have a structure a bit like a centreboard case to take the loads from a metal fin keel into the hull.
    It's just that nobody made the leap to make an overgrown National 14 with a bulb keel.
    https://sailcraftblog.wordpress.com/...laning-dinghy/

    What people label as a 'classic yacht' shape is not the best that could be done with wood, it is a style which sold yachts in the 50s and continues to attract buyers now. That's all.

    Of course if you'd built something like a carvel Ker 32 in 1950, it would have been absolutely spanked by the rating rules of the time. And the weight of a wooden mast would probably have made it a dog in choppy water.
    In the 60s, people did not know so much about what shapes were intrinsically fast through the water. What they did know was shaped by the top designers looking for the best performance under the metre rules and what-have-you. All those long overhangs may look pretty, but if we'd had CHS/IRC in 1950, they'd never have evolved that way. The craftsmen could have built different hull shapes. If wood could not have delivered what the designers wanted, then more boats would have been built in other materials. There was a lot of non-wood content in some pre-war boats, particularly in the US. Metal frames.

    But also, 'classic era' yachts were designed to race across oceans, or at least offshore in a gale. When the shape of an AWB no longer looks so optimal?

    But if all we cared about was efficiency, we'd be sailing trimarans anyway.

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    829

    Default Re: Classic GRP Yachts; this is mine, where is yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tranona View Post
    That is a classic example of a wooden boat built in GRP. Its shape was determined largely by what you could build in wood.

    Fast forward a few years and then see what the same designer drew once he did not have the constraint of wood construction.
    Have to be honest. I think all his most beautiful designs were from the wooden era. If you fast forward 10 or 20 years in the same length he drew the leisure 26 and oyster 26 neither of which catch the eye. Whereas in wood he drew yachts like this: http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/yacht/373/MABEL

    Give me her over all the oysters he had a hand in any day.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    33,128

    Default Re: Classic GRP Yachts; this is mine, where is yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buck Turgidson View Post
    Have to be honest. I think all his most beautiful designs were from the wooden era. If you fast forward 10 or 20 years in the same length he drew the leisure 26 and oyster 26 neither of which catch the eye. Whereas in wood he drew yachts like this: http://www.sandemanyachtcompany.co.uk/yacht/373/MABEL

    Give me her over all the oysters he had a hand in any day.
    When it comes to elegance, masthead rig is basically a 'fail'.

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Oct 2018
    Posts
    802

    Default Re: Classic GRP Yachts; this is mine, where is yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    When it comes to elegance, masthead rig is basically a 'fail'.
    I'd go further and say that Bermudan rig is basically a "fail" when it comes to elegance. And not the best sail for the many modern yachtsmen who don't like sailing to windward and prefer to put the engine on.

    Conor O'Brien concluded that for many yachtsmen, the best rig would be a square sail capable of being handled from the deck, with a powerful engine for going to windward and entering/leaving harbour.
    Last edited by Poignard; 04-11-18 at 20:44.

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Solent, UK
    Posts
    4,323

    Default Re: Classic GRP Yachts; this is mine, where is yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by CAPTAIN FANTASTIC View Post
    Tranona; Apart from my suggestion nobody has proposed a classic GRP boat that does not have its roots in plank on frame except perhaps some of the transition fin and skeg boats of the 70's.
    The Fairey boats were constructed from wood laminates and had shapes that differed widely from traditional plank on frame wooden construction methods.
    Grow old disgracefully, it's more fun

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    6,586

    Default Re: Classic GRP Yachts; this is mine, where is yours?

    There is nothing new about deep short fin keels, shallow canoe bodies and separate deep rudders with no skeg:





    BONA FIDE, Charles Sibbick, 1899, now owned I think by Doug Peterson.

    Conventional plank on frame construction “but carefully”!
    Last edited by Minn; 04-11-18 at 21:25.

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    1,359

    Default Re: Classic GRP Yachts; this is mine, where is yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by johnalison View Post
    Your Vindo is perhaps not typical of Swedish boats of the time, but composite boats in the same general style were common in Germany until quite recently, and may still be made as far as I know by small builders on the Schlei.
    Yes, obviously there is still a niche market for new built yachts of this type (which sort of delights me):
    http://www.scalaryachts.com/cms/en/scalar-yachts/start

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    6,586

    Default Re: Classic GRP Yachts; this is mine, where is yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by Topcat47 View Post
    The Fairey boats were constructed from wood laminates and had shapes that differed widely from traditional plank on frame wooden construction methods.
    Depends a lot on your Fairey boat.

    This is one:



    This isn’t one:

    Last edited by Minn; 04-11-18 at 22:44.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    North from the Nab about 10 miles
    Posts
    8,522

    Default Re: Classic GRP Yachts; this is mine, where is yours?

    Here's my Trident 24, launched 1972, but the 1st one launched 1960, and still going strong. I saw one at the LBS in 1963, and decided to buy one. I finally did in 2007, but this is the only boat I have owned for more than 5 years before the shortcomings overcame the good points! Now after 11 years, still happy: not the biggest, not the most comfortable below, but a brilliant sailer: No1 won ALL her club races about 4 years ago. Says something for a 50's designed boat!

    1436891477383.jpg
    Is Conservation for wildlife or conservationists?
    http://boatownersresponse.org.uk

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    6,586

    Default Re: Classic GRP Yachts; this is mine, where is yours?

    Quote Originally Posted by oldharry View Post
    Here's my Trident 24, launched 1972, but the 1st one launched 1960, and still going strong. I saw one at the LBS in 1963, and decided to buy one. I finally did in 2007, but this is the only boat I have owned for more than 5 years before the shortcomings overcame the good points! Now after 11 years, still happy: not the biggest, not the most comfortable below, but a brilliant sailer: No1 won ALL her club races about 4 years ago. Says something for a 50's designed boat!

    1436891477383.jpg
    If I recall correctly, JD Sleightholme when Editor of “Yachting Monthly “ owned a Trident 24 Named “Tinker Liz”, which he kept on a mooring at Woolverstone. They are lovely boats.

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