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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    scotland
    Posts
    84

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    The draught of those ferries is 21 feet. That sub could have been at a depth 3 times that at periscope depth,depends which one it was. So to avoid a collision it could have simply lowered the periscope if needed.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    18,479

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by jamie N View Post
    "A Submarine at periscope depth will not close to within 1500yds of an FV without her specific consent." I'm guessing that's the same for a ferry?
    Seems fairly obvious that something's gone awry if the ferry got a scare.
    A cover up by denial of the distances, a reprimand or a new career selling ice cream near Helensburgh for 'an' Officer? What's your call JumbleD?
    My guess, based on nothing you haven't read, is that there was no real risk but that that happened by luck as much as by judgment and that someone will be told that even if everything was under control, it is not good PR for the navy to go around annoying civilians. This is particularly so around the North Channel and Irish see where the navy's past record has not been stellar.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    18,479

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by East Cardinal View Post
    But IRCPS does not give ferries right of way because they use the same routing on each trip.
    Of course. But it does suggest to the prudent navigator that these are areas in which to keep a particularly good lookout for them. If you have sailed in the North Channel then you will appreciate what Quandary has said about the speed of the ferries. What does IRPCS say about ships which deliberately conceal themselves?
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  4. #44
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,047

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    My guess, based on nothing you haven't read, is that there was no real risk but that that happened by luck as much as by judgment and that someone will be told that even if everything was under control, it is not good PR for the navy to go around annoying civilians.
    What you've got to remember here JD is that these vessels don't only have sonars to help them avoid mud banks, they are permanently astute to any risk of impending collision....

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,324

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by East Cardinal View Post
    You obviously have some axe to grind on this topic. Without the report I expect we cannot know exactly the circumstances.
    But IRCPS does not give ferries right of way because they use the same routing on each trip.
    Having encountered those ferries dozens of times on that route of not seen even a hint of them taking that attitude.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,324

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quandary View Post
    They bought them in Finland and they are very fast indeed, passage time is as good as the guzzling jet thingys that used to send the big pressure wave ashore as they went up the loch.
    I know. I've sailed in the Aland Islands and watched them squeeze through some pretty narrow channels between the rocks. Must've been well over a hundred different transits on their route.

    I rarely see them doing more than about 20Kts ish in the North Channel. Guzzling jet thingys guzzled their fuel budget too quickly if they put their foot down. Think they sold them to Venezeula as they could afford the fuel, or at least they thought they could.

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Dec 2017
    Posts
    103

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Is there a MAIB report out for this "incident"?

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    5,324

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by East Cardinal View Post
    Is there a MAIB report out for this "incident"?
    Probably about a year. They do strange stuff like checking facts. Investigations could be rattled off far quicker if they were to outsource them to us.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...investigations

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    2,685

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpdsn View Post
    Probably about a year. They do strange stuff like checking facts. Investigations could be rattled off far quicker if they were to outsource them to us.
    Perfect!

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    6,629

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    What you've got to remember here JD is that these vessels don't only have sonars to help them avoid mud banks, they are permanently astute to any risk of impending collision....
    Mmmm, very astute.

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