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  1. #81
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    6,615

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by East Cardinal View Post
    Try reading “Hunter Killers” by Iain Ballantyne, for an insight into the submarine world.
    It is very easy to criticise from a keyboard.
    Having looked at the Service Enquiry Report, referenced earlier on here, it's difficult not to be critical. I quite understand the "retired admirals" attitude, but largely, and certainly in respect of the grounding of Astute, they are defending the indefensible.

  2. #82
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    3,361

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    [QUOTE=East Cardinal;6679180]
    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    Only inasmuch as the submarine department of the navy seems far too often to display wanton disregard for other water users.

    Perisher course? How hard can it be? I've watched "The Hunt for Red October" twice.k


    Jumble duck, if you could pass the perisher course, I might take you seriously.
    If they could pass a Yachtmaster exam, he might take them seriously.

  3. #83
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    18,471

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by BelleSerene View Post
    If they could pass a Yachtmaster exam, he might take them seriously.
    Now, now, let's not overstate it. "Day Skipper" is what I wrote, and Day Skipper I meant.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  4. #84
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Kingdom of Fife
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    6,000

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    Now, now, let's not overstate it. "Day Skipper" is what I wrote, and Day Skipper I meant.
    Now I have in my time passed first time my Submarine part three, Bridge Watchkeeping Certificate, and Ocean Navigation Certificate, [all of which were required to be confirmed as a Lieutenant] plus my diesel to nuclear conversion part three, and a Coastal Skipper practical. I can assure you the Coastal Skipper was very much easier.

    Now my time at sea in submarines was a good few years ago so some things may have changed a bit. Clearly from the BOI report they expect a lot more box ticking now that I ever did and my last seagoing job was as a submarine navigating officer. Certainly for Astute it would seem that whilst there was clearly a lack of clarity in what was being done it was mainly the result of 'Channel Fever' a phenomenon caused by the euphoria of getting the job done which tends to cause ones guard to drop and mistakes become more likely. I have seem a perisher close up, very close up, and the result is the very highest standard. I also have seen that standard in action close to the enemy {try reading Blind Mans Bluff mainly USN but it does cover the RN involvement]

    Just as an aside a submarine should be able to safely navigate within at least a cable of another ship
    Peter

  5. #85
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,469

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by East Cardinal View Post
    Try reading https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00O3GWP...ng=UTF8&btkr=1, for an insight into the submarine world.
    It is very easy to criticise from a keyboard.
    Also worth a read, though the subject's belief in his own perfection does get a bit wearing at times.

    https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00O3GWP...ng=UTF8&btkr=1

  6. #86
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Posts
    14,651

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxi77 View Post
    And a Stena spokesman said '"At no stage were the vessel, passengers or crew in any danger.' which would tend to suggest that the incident was not perhaps quite as scary as some would like to suggest.
    Indeed! We were crossing the Straits of Gibraltar a few months ago from Ceuta. The fast ferry from Ceuta was doing 30 plus knots on our port side about 200 mtrs away whilst its sister ship was doing the same going back to Ceuta on the port side!
    Not as scary as it sounds!

  7. #87
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    6,615

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by skipper_stu View Post
    Indeed! We were crossing the Straits of Gibraltar a few months ago from Ceuta. The fast ferry from Ceuta was doing 30 plus knots on our port side about 200 mtrs away whilst its sister ship was doing the same going back to Ceuta on the port side!
    Not as scary as it sounds!
    However, both were on the surface!

  8. #88
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,469

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by skipper_stu View Post
    Indeed! We were crossing the Straits of Gibraltar a few months ago from Ceuta. The fast ferry from Ceuta was doing 30 plus knots on our port side about 200 mtrs away whilst its sister ship was doing the same going back to Ceuta on the port side!
    Not as scary as it sounds!
    It might be for them if the ferries were aware of your level of competence.

  9. #89
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Kingdom of Fife
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    6,000

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elecglitch View Post
    It might be for them if the ferries were aware of your level of competence.
    In busy channels being that close is normal, even down to half a cable is OK especially on a reciprocal course or passing close astern.
    Peter

  10. #90
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    18,471

    Default Re: RN submarine seamanship strikes (almost) again.

    Quote Originally Posted by maxi77 View Post
    In busy channels being that close is normal, even down to half a cable is OK especially on a reciprocal course or passing close astern.
    Indeed. One of my abiding regrets is not switching off my AIS as I passed 100m behind a Stena ferry at the entrance to Belfast Lough. Knowing, as I did, that the mother of a young guest was following us nervously on Marine Traffic ...

    That said, getting up close with these ferries is perfectly normal. As I wrote they are courteous and efficient about finding a way through traffic, as long as they can see it.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

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