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Thread: Save the planet

  1. #1
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    Default Save the planet

    Put against this the huge Barges sailing around European inland waters running on diesel


    [Wärtsilä and the shipowner estimate that the total reduction in nitrogen oxide emissions after the retrofit could be as much as 80 to 90 percent, while overall fuel cost savings are expected to be in the range of 5 to 10 percent.

    The battery capacity will be sufficient to sail in and out of harbor on electric power for approximately 30 minutes, which will effectively reduce noise and pollution levels in harbor.]
    https://gcaptain.com/wartsila-to-con...battery-power/
    Brexit: ‘taking back’ what we had never lost, in order to lose everything we had...

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Save the planet

    Bit curious, as the batteries to get that sort of power would need to quite big. Which leads one to wonder about the nasty stuff that they have in them?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Save the planet

    Nitrogen oxides have little to do with the planet. True, they're greenhouse gases too, but their emission volume is magnitudes lower than of carbon dioxide.
    Health effects are a completely different story!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Save the planet

    Quote Originally Posted by GTom View Post
    Nitrogen oxides have little to do with the planet. True, they're greenhouse gases too, but their emission volume is magnitudes lower than of carbon dioxide.
    Health effects are a completely different story!
    There is also the problems of neutral carbon Batteries , where they come from, the amount of energy it cost to produce them , the materials used , the waste management of batteries when their sell by date is up.
    It is never Black and white and although the problems with Hydro Carbons is well documented for pollution , not to many studies in the Battery production needed for Cars Trucks and now ships
    I would be interested to hear from those that might know

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Save the planet

    Quote Originally Posted by moomba View Post
    There is also the problems of neutral carbon Batteries , where they come from, the amount of energy it cost to produce them , the materials used , the waste management of batteries when their sell by date is up.
    It is never Black and white and although the problems with Hydro Carbons is well documented for pollution , not to many studies in the Battery production needed for Cars Trucks and now ships
    I would be interested to hear from those that might know
    There will be a red coach along soon
    Brexit: ‘taking back’ what we had never lost, in order to lose everything we had...

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Save the planet

    Quote Originally Posted by sailorman View Post
    There will be a red coach along soon
    That made me chuckle
    More chuckles are the way forward

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Save the planet

    Quote Originally Posted by GTom View Post
    Nitrogen oxides have little to do with the planet. True, they're greenhouse gases too, but their emission volume is magnitudes lower than of carbon dioxide.
    Health effects are a completely different story!
    In addition to the respiratory effects of NO2, oxides of nitrogen contribute to atmospheric haze, acid rain and coastal eutrophication. N2O is an important GHG in its own right; NO and NO2 are not direct GHGs but are implicated in formation of tropospheric ozone, which increases warming.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Save the planet

    Quote Originally Posted by Hydrozoan View Post
    In addition to the respiratory effects of NO2, oxides of nitrogen contribute to atmospheric haze, acid rain and coastal eutrophication. N2O is an important GHG in its own right; NO and NO2 are not direct GHGs but are implicated in formation of tropospheric ozone, which increases warming.
    Again, amounts... Few ppm causes lung cancer on the mid term, but how much do you need for an acid rain, not to mention eutrophisation? Guessing a completely different ballbark here.

    Quote Originally Posted by moomba View Post
    There is also the problems of neutral carbon Batteries , where they come from, the amount of energy it cost to produce them , the materials used , the waste management of batteries when their sell by date is up.
    It is never Black and white and although the problems with Hydro Carbons is well documented for pollution , not to many studies in the Battery production needed for Cars Trucks and now ships
    I would be interested to hear from those that might know
    Absolutely right, the true ecological footprint of most "renewables" are way underestimated often shifting the pollution to 3rd world countries or China.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Save the planet

    When people talk about "saving the planet" I am always reminded of the scene on H2G2 where Arthur and Ford find themselves in strange spaceship and suddenly confronted by a creature that turns itself into the ravenous bug bladder beast of Trall.
    Arthur asks, is it safe?
    Ford replies... "oh... it’s perfectly safe... it’s us that’s in trouble”.
    Life is too short to drink bad wine.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Save the planet

    Quote Originally Posted by GTom View Post
    Again, amounts... Few ppm causes lung cancer on the mid term, but how much do you need for an acid rain, not to mention eutrophisation? Guessing a completely different ballbark here. ...
    Not really comparable - a concentration-related issue on the one hand, and contributions to overall loads on the other. But NOx is a contributor to acidification and to eutrophication – though in the latter case, usually a minor one I guess compared with N from fertilizer run-off and STW effluents.

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