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Thread: Free wifi

  1. #41
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    1,242

    Default Re: Free wifi

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream believer View Post
    There is a principle rising here.
    First this is not a dig at Vic. In a way I can understand him being upset at the suggestion of theft. But the underlying theme of - this is how it is done - is still there.
    Of course he only pointed to the App & one has to make one's own opinion from there on in.
    So fair dues to Vic , he has pointed it out in good faith , because the " knife" can be used in a good way.
    However, going on tho your reply to my " why should the landlord change his password"
    One is suggesting that it is the landlord's fault that the internet is slow.He should do something about it.
    It reminds me of the sad case recently of the young girl who has just committed suicide.
    The press has lambasted the software provider ( was it facebook or someone? i do not use it)
    No one has said anything about the idiots who post the stuff in the first place. No one has said " what will we do to those people. All they can do is scream at Facebook.

    A bit like the landlord- no one has said anything about the yuppies who you suggest might post obscene muck. No one has said anything about the bloke who might use Vic's App ( for want of a better description) & use up the bandwidth.
    Same thing really, is it not?

    And please Vic- Do not get the hump - it is a thread drift that I admit should be in the lounge
    I think you're reading too much into my reply. I was just pointing out why the landlord that you spoke to should care about his wifi service. He's paying for it, but by not bothering to maintain it he's cheesed you off, he's doing the same to others and wasting an asset that should be earning him customers - the very reason he pays for it.

    And I suppose that's why I haven't expressed a view on the original subject. I've no doubt that there will be a few wifi providers who would be outraged to find a non-paying user on their network, but the majority will be aware that it happens, don't really like it, but as with your landlord, just can't be bothered to do anything about it. I dare say some may hope that by being listed on the app brings them customers, and I'm sure it probably does. The thing is, no matter how much or how little the business owner knows about wifi, the access point installed in his premises came with the password enabled, and if he's changed or disabled it then he takes responsibility for how it's used or abused.

    If he has any sense it will be an uncapped connection, so the freeloader costs nothing except possibly causing slow down and so I can't really see how it's causing so much angst. If this conversation was taking place five or ten years ago then I could have understood it, but who now actually bothers with public wifi unless they're in a 4G dead zone? (Yes, I know that my 'phone might try and connect to an unsecured one, and then do the stuff that I've told it not to do over 4G - updates etc.. but if it does, then because its owners haven't secured their network, then tough).

    Actually, that does raise a point. How do the outraged feel about the fact that their 'phones might automatically be connecting to unsecured networks? And taking that opportunity to download updates and upload their photographs - much higher data use than some yuppie checking his emails? Who's freeloading now? Or have you disabled auto scanning?

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Türkiye
    Posts
    1,322

    Default Re: Free wifi

    This thread has gone from the ridiculous to insane. Would there be any possibility of setting up a sub-forum for those of us who are actually interested in sharing and benefiting from genuine tips and advice from other like minded boaters.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    18,479

    Default Re: Free wifi

    Quote Originally Posted by AntarcticPilot View Post
    True, of course, but at least you're pretty certain that everyone on the network has made themselves identifiable to the network owners. Not by any means fool-proof! But it's the best you're going to get in most public places; distributing WPA keys is insecure as well as being more of a burden for hotel or bar staff. And places that have a WPA password on a notice by the bar (or wherever) might as well not bother.
    I thought the whole point of public/private key cryptography was that you could safely distribute the public key willy-nilly. What am I missing?

    Incidentally, my home wifi has no security at all because, thanks to 200 year old thick stone walls, it only works in my living room.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  4. #44
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Cambridge, UK
    Posts
    5,815

    Default Re: Free wifi

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    I thought the whole point of public/private key cryptography was that you could safely distribute the public key willy-nilly. What am I missing?

    Incidentally, my home wifi has no security at all because, thanks to 200 year old thick stone walls, it only works in my living room.
    Anyone with the WPA password can access the network freely:

    From Wikipedia:
    "WPA and WPA2 don't provide forward secrecy, meaning that once an adverse person discovers the pre-shared key, they can potentially decrypt all packets encrypted using that PSK transmitted in the future and even past, which could be passively and silently collected by the attacker. This also means an attacker can silently capture and decrypt others' packets if a WPA-protected access point is provided free of charge at a public place, because its password is usually shared to anyone in that place. In other words, WPA only protects from attackers who don't have access to the password. Because of that, it's safer to use Transport Layer Security (TLS) or similar on top of that for the transfer of any sensitive data. However starting from WPA3, this issue has been addressed"
    In other words, if you have the WPA password, you can decrypt any packet on the network. WPA3 apparently addresses that, but I don't hink it's implemented on many routers yet.
    I think that restricting the signal (as far as possible) to the premises is the other main means used for security; you're up with the best of them
    Last edited by AntarcticPilot; 11-02-19 at 17:07.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    Isle of Eigg
    Posts
    6,668

    Default Re: Free wifi

    Because an app is hosted at Google play Store or the App Store in no way implies anything about the app except that it has passed some anti-virus/ anti malware checking. You will find as much in the terms and conditions of those sites.
    If an establishment intended to have completely open WiFi then they would not password protect it.
    They do expect it to be used by patrons only.
    The fact that the password is in the public domain in no way confers the right to distribute it. The terms and conditions for tha app, in fact, remove liability to the authors for just that case.
    It is entirely possible to use this app to infringe the rights of the establishments that provide free WiFi for customers, in fact there is little use to disseminating passwords except to defraud those establishments.

    A map of hotspots with user ratings is obviously very handy, disseminating the passwords for those places is of no use except to defraud the hosts.


    So, you want advice?
    Dont trust apps.
    Just call me Dougal, Sir Dougal to you.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
    Posts
    17,310

    Default Re: Free wifi

    Quote Originally Posted by Lon nan Gruagach View Post
    Because an app is hosted at Google play Store or the App Store in no way implies anything about the app except that it has passed some anti-virus/ anti malware checking. You will find as much in the terms and conditions of those sites.
    If an establishment intended to have completely open WiFi then they would not password protect it.
    They do expect it to be used by patrons only.
    The fact that the password is in the public domain in no way confers the right to distribute it. The terms and conditions for tha app, in fact, remove liability to the authors for just that case.
    It is entirely possible to use this app to infringe the rights of the establishments that provide free WiFi for customers, in fact there is little use to disseminating passwords except to defraud those establishments.

    A map of hotspots with user ratings is obviously very handy, disseminating the passwords for those places is of no use except to defraud the hosts.


    So, you want advice?
    Dont trust apps.
    It's an app. It's on Google Play and Apple Store. The end. (and I've now installed it!)

    Richard

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    18,479

    Default Re: Free wifi

    Quote Originally Posted by AntarcticPilot View Post
    Anyone with the WPA password can access the network freely:
    Coo. One lives and learns. I had always assumed that the WPA key was the public half of a public-private pair. Thank you.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Türkiye
    Posts
    1,322

    Default Re: Free wifi

    Quote Originally Posted by sailaboutvic View Post
    Yes enjoy
    Does anyone know what it's called on the App Store - lots similar but can't find this specific one.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
    Posts
    17,310

    Default Re: Free wifi

    Quote Originally Posted by Irish Rover View Post
    Does anyone know what it's called on the App Store - lots similar but can't find this specific one.
    It's "Wifi Map" as stated by Vic on Google Store.

    Warning ...... There is a special place in Hell reserved for people who install this app.

    Richard

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    UK, Greece and Spain
    Posts
    21,340

    Default Re: Free wifi

    Was in the process of downloading this App and it wanted permission to access various things on my phone, okay location was fair enough, it would need that. But it also wanted for me to give permission for it to access my camera and media files for example. I decided not to continue, am I being paranoid?

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