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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    2,083

    Default Re: Torqeedo Outboards?

    Going back to the inability of an electric motor to plane, I imagine at some point they're use some clever gearbox and electronics to gauge when the boat suddenly reached plane speed and then change the gearing to reduce torque for prop speed. I mean I only need to give my 3.5hp full juice for 2/3 seconds and then once on the plan I can drop the throttle right back to half or less.

    If Torqeedo could achieve this, get a dingy planing and then drop back power to minimise battery usage / increase range.. it'll be a game changer.

    For us being able to go 12 kts in a small dingy is really useful and means we can really use out dingy for more than just reaching the shore when we can't be arsed to paddle.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    SoF
    Posts
    9,177

    Default Re: Torqeedo Outboards?

    I’ll add this. Having an outboard that can easily come off the dingy and be stored is especially useful here in the South of France. During the summer months access to the beach from the mothership requires rowing as there is often a no propeller zone to protect swimmers. This seems to be much more aggressively policed recently, and rowing with the outboard in the raised position is not acceptable. No propeller doesn’t just mean no propeller in the water!
    Last edited by Bouba; 13-03-19 at 12:51.
    Neither a Leaver or Remainer be

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    South of France.
    Posts
    4,105

    Default Re: Torqeedo Outboards?

    Quote Originally Posted by northcave View Post
    Going back to the inability of an electric motor to plane, I imagine at some point they're use some clever gearbox and electronics to gauge when the boat suddenly reached plane speed and then change the gearing to reduce torque for prop speed. I mean I only need to give my 3.5hp full juice for 2/3 seconds and then once on the plan I can drop the throttle right back to half or less.

    If Torqeedo could achieve this, get a dingy planing and then drop back power to minimise battery usage / increase range.. it'll be a game changer.

    For us being able to go 12 kts in a small dingy is really useful and means we can really use out dingy for more than just reaching the shore when we can't be arsed to paddle.
    My little lithium battery electric scooter has 2 gears ... up to 18 kph and 18 to 30 odd kph ... could be done with an outboard possibly. I have a 1003C and am very happy with it on a 2.8 rib.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    2,083

    Default Re: Torqeedo Outboards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kingfisher 5 View Post
    My little lithium battery electric scooter has 2 gears ... up to 18 kph and 18 to 30 odd kph ... could be done with an outboard possibly. I have a 1003C and am very happy with it on a 2.8 rib.
    Does it ever feel like its close to planing or nowhere near?
    www.Chasing-Contours.com - A circumnavigation by boat, bikes, climbing & paragliding

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    SoF
    Posts
    9,177

    Default Re: Torqeedo Outboards?

    Quote Originally Posted by nestawayboats View Post
    Weight is certainly one of the most important reasons people buy these motors yes. I'd say ease of use (no starter cord, choke or carburetor gumming to deal with), and ease of storage (nothing to leak out - hang it upside down if you want) are also right up there. The quietness and smoothness are largely seen as massive bonuses but not necessarily decisive. In some markets, not so much the UK (yet) legislation is driving it too; many inland waterway authorities have banned or are considering banning combustion engines altogether (eg German/Swiss lakes).

    One has to assume the new (direct drive) Torqeedo 1103 was developed at least in part to respond to the competition from the (direct drive) Epropulsion. The 1103 is billed by Torqeedo as their new flagship portable model, and as they put it "The new Travel 1103 C adds 10% more power, increased durability and is much quieter, while weighing just 2.4 kg more."

    To clarify on weight then:
    - the Torqeedo 1003 (oldest design, small fast spinning motor with reduction gearbox) shaft/motor weight (with battery removed) is 8.9kg
    - the Epropulsion Spirit (direct drive) shaft/motor is 10.8kg
    - the new Torqeedo 1103 (direct drive) shaft/motor is 11.5kg

    In terms of "pass up and down from the big boat weight" - because you can clip the battery on when the motor is clamped to the dinghy's transom - all three are lighter than even the lightest 4-strokes; Honda & Suzuki's 2.5hp motors are quoted at around 13kg. But I think that 13kg is a dry weight, so at the very least you need to add sump oil to that - and most people I know choose to put fuel in the tank while the motor's on the (steadier platform) big boat - so perhaps more like 15kg. Two-strokes were lighter yes but cannot be purchased new (since 2006) and I don't recall any of them being as light as 11.5kg. (Maybe the now-ancient Yamaha 2, empty of fuel - I'm sure someone here will know.)

    The Epropulsion batteries are heavier than the Torqeedo ones - not least because the capacity is 10% more than the largest Torqeedo option - but still lighter than the motor part, and much easier (in terms of shape) to handle. The weight disadvantage of the Eprop battery is arguably outweighed by the fact it floats if dropped... (the Torqeedo ones don't!).

    Battery weights:
    - Torqeedo 320Wh (rarely purchased nowadays, still theoretically available) 4.2kg
    - Torqeedo 532Wh (standard with 1003) 5.3kg
    - Torqeedo 916Wh (standard with 1003C and 1103C) 6kg
    - Epropulsion 1018Wh (only option) 7.8kg

    As an aside the three Torqeedo batteries all come in the same size casing. When it was launched, the 320Wh capacity battery seemed like a massive step forward... 10 years later they are getting nearly three times as much capacity (ie 916Wh) into the same volume. That increase in battery capacity seems to be what's made this type of motor really become "mainstream" - for many users 916Wh (or typically about 2hrs at about 4 to 4.5 knots, 1hr at 5.5 knots) represent's several days use.

    The new direct drive Torqeedo 1103 is due to arrive in UK within days now. We will publish more comparative information as soon as we can put them all (Torqeedo 1003 & 1103, Epropulsion Spirit) next to each other.

    Ian Thomson
    Nestaway Boats
    Ian, do any of your customers worry about the battery or other parts of the Torqeedo being stolen if they leave their dingy anywhere? And if yes, what do you advise them?
    Neither a Leaver or Remainer be

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Bristol
    Posts
    2,083

    Default Re: Torqeedo Outboards?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bouba View Post
    Ian, do any of your customers worry about the battery or other parts of the Torqeedo being stolen if they leave their dingy anywhere? And if yes, what do you advise them?
    I imagine there isnt enough of a market for second hand torqeedo batteries yet to be a major risk but if I get one I'll be either hiding my battery in a bush or somehow locking it.... Ian can it be locked?

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Greenwich
    Posts
    7,328

    Default Re: Torqeedo Outboards?

    Quote Originally Posted by northcave View Post
    I imagine there isnt enough of a market for second hand torqeedo batteries yet to be a major risk but if I get one I'll be either hiding my battery in a bush or somehow locking it.... Ian can it be locked?
    We’ve always locked our Torqueedo like any other outboard so by a padlock on the toggles but also have always put a cycle lock wire through the integral battery handle and attached that to the padlock too. So the tiller/throttle could be stolen still but we don’t bother taking it off and putting it into a bag (it’s not at all heavy or large) unless for some reason we are nervous about the town - and that is very rare.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Christchurch, Dorset
    Posts
    53

    Default Re: Torqeedo Outboards?

    Regards locking either Torqeedo or Epropulsion motors, yes a padlock through the handles or - better, as the handles are only plastic - an "outboard tube lock" (various suppliers) that slides over the handles to stop them being undone or snapped off. Then a bike cable through the battery and if you're feeling paranoid (in the case of the Torqeedo) take the tiller (which is removable on the Torqeedo, foldable on the Epropulsion) with you. If you take those precautions, harsh as it may sound you've made it easier - for the potential thief - to nick somebody else's motor.

    Some customers do take their batteries ashore, but this is usually more about grabbing the opportunity to "refuel" (their battery as well as themselves!) in the pub, than security. Torqeedo mains charger is 90W (so you get about 10% charge of the 916Wh battery per hour on the mains); Epropulsion standard mains charger is 175W (about 17% per hour of their 1018Wh battery); and with the Epropulsion there is a 400W fast charger option (2.5hrs to full charge from flat). Both manufacturers offer battery bags as options, with rucksack-style straps in the case of the Eprop.

    Lastly I'd point that certainly when I was last living in the Caribbean - nearly 20 years ago, unfortunately - there was a disincentive to making the outboard too difficult to steal, because "they" did usually only want the outboard. (Outboard motors being relatively portable and valuable per kilo, with a ready market, compared to boats.) We heard of a few dinghies where the outboard was too secure so the thieves had either hacked the transom out of the boat altogether (in the case of inflatable floor boats), or sawn out the relevant bit of the transom on RIBs.

    Ian, Nestaway Boats
    Last edited by nestawayboats; 14-03-19 at 09:54.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Home East Lancashire boat Spain
    Posts
    4,595

    Default Re: Torqeedo Outboards?

    Our Seagull might be getting a little long in the tooth and we often discuss what we would replace it with!
    Our Avon Redstart is an exact fit in its ideal storage location so we want to keep that.
    We don't expect to be planning!
    I hear that Torqueedos' are very expensive but some new outboards also seem pricey.
    I guess that the max size we would want would be 2.5hp so can anyone offer an aprox cost comparison new outboard against new Torqueedo and the relative life expectations?

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Greenwich
    Posts
    7,328

    Default Re: Torqeedo Outboards?

    Quote Originally Posted by pcatterall View Post
    Our Seagull might be getting a little long in the tooth and we often discuss what we would replace it with!
    Our Avon Redstart is an exact fit in its ideal storage location so we want to keep that.
    We don't expect to be planning!
    I hear that Torqueedos' are very expensive but some new outboards also seem pricey.
    I guess that the max size we would want would be 2.5hp so can anyone offer an aprox cost comparison new outboard against new Torqueedo and the relative life expectations?
    If cost is even in your calculations then I would forget about Torqueedo for another few years. For us it was a complete indulgence and delivered all the advantages we hoped for and a couple more.

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