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  1. #21
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    Apr 2005
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    Default Re: Wanted - 38' Flybridge

    I would strongly advocate using a marine lawyer to conveyance for you. They are able to see through foreign Lakers and it gives you the options of saying ‘not me, you know lawyers’ when negotiating or getting a deal done.

    Cost for a normal deal is in the region of £800-£1200. I have used Ian Collette at Ward & McKenzie for a couple of transactions now and I highly recommend them. Website here: http://www.ward-mckenzie.co.uk/
    Free supercharging Tesla referral code http://ts.la/jez9763

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Home: Bristol, Boat: Torquay
    Posts
    147

    Default Re: Wanted - 38' Flybridge

    Thanks for the recommendation Jez Ė I am sure they will be invaluable, as I would not want to do it without professional advice.

    Iíve been having a trawl of the usual sites, and have re-read many old posts on this forum, including re-reading Petem's epic buying saga for start to end. With this in mind, Iíve collected my thoughts below in the hope of benefiting from the wealth of experience on here.

    Shortlist:

    Overall comfort and liveability and resell-ability are more important to us than top speed / sea keeping, so our shortlist is:

    Princess 38/ 40 Ė probably our joint favourite, but not many around, and would probably need to be an early model to be able to afford one.

    Azimut 39 Ė the other joint favourite. Again, not so common in the UK, but there is a reasonable selection for sale across Europe Ė and can probably pick up a slightly newer one than the Princess.

    Rodman 38 - not as pretty to my eye, but the layout would work for us and we maybe able to afford a newer boat. They seem to come well specíd, but there are not many in the UK, as I donít think there is a UK distributor. This maybe a problem when we come to sell; having said that; the few examples that are in the UK do seem to have sold OK.

    Fairline P38 Ė nice, and strong residuals, but reasonably priced tidy examples seem to be as common as rocking-horse poo and the flybridge seems a tad smaller than the boat above

    Outline spec:

    Possibly controversially for a UK based boat; Iím attracted to having a passerelle; as I think have a large crane on the back of the boat will help with launching/ retrieving the tender, and I could have a tender with a larger engine. The Princess sometimes came with a mini retractable crane, which might do the job even better (as it would not be in the way).

    We would also like a generator, mainly to keep fridges / freezer running.

    Retrofitting passerelles / cranes / generators seems to expensive, so buying a boat with one fitted would seem like a sensible option.

    I think diesel heating is essential for the UK, but Iím thinking most boats with passerelle and generator will be Ďmed specí and not have this. From reading other threads I believe this can be retrofitted for c£3k, which I think will be less than the costs of a decent passerelle / generator.

    Some boats have large davits for a tender. These seem to prevent any movement across the swim platform- which for us would seem to be a PITA.

    Iím very conscious I have not lived on a boat with these features, so what I picture in my minds eye, may be less practical in real life (e.g. see Jezís feedback re: practicalities of eating on the f/b).

    Potential Markets:

    Aside from the UK, most boats appear to be in France, Spain, Croatia, Italy, Turkey & Greece. Of the non-UK destinations are there any which are recommended, or best avoided? IMHO Turkey and Greece just seem too far away to be practical Ė but am I missing a trick?

    The market

    It seems to be a sellerís market at the moment. My perception is boat prices seem to have increased from 2 Ė 3 years ago, and that is borne out by the price I sold my boat for (+10%), and comparing todayís boat prices with quoted from threads from 2016/17. This feels like a blip to me, as it does not seem logical that 10 Ė 20 yo boats residuals are increasing, so I may need to wait a while to pick something up for a more reasonable price.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Looking out of the window
    Posts
    13,830

    Default Re: Wanted - 38' Flybridge

    Iíve been having a trawl of the usual sites, and have re-read many old posts on this forum, including re-reading Petem's epic buying saga for start to end. With this in mind, Iíve collected my thoughts below in the hope of benefiting from the wealth of experience on here.

    Shortlist:

    Overall comfort and liveability and resell-ability are more important to us than top speed / sea keeping, so our shortlist is:
    Broadly all good - I think 'sea keeping' is a widely over stated attribute especially in this class. Since you arent looking for an Itama, everything else in your bracket will be much of a muchness.

    Princess 38/ 40 Ė probably our joint favourite, but not many around, and would probably need to be an early model to be able to afford one.

    Azimut 39 Ė the other joint favourite. Again, not so common in the UK, but there is a reasonable selection for sale across Europe Ė and can probably pick up a slightly newer one than the Princess. dont blame you, lovely boats. Plentiful in europe

    Rodman 38 - not as pretty to my eye, but the layout would work for us and we maybe able to afford a newer boat. They seem to come well specíd, but there are not many in the UK, as I donít think there is a UK distributor. This maybe a problem when we come to sell; having said that; the few examples that are in the UK do seem to have sold OK. Lack of dealer representation isnt a problem. They've had dealers in the past, and I think they might have one still (they were at SIBS). At the age you are looking at they are well out of warranty and all the bits fitted will likely be mainstream stuff

    Fairline P38 Ė nice, and strong residuals, but reasonably priced tidy examples seem to be as common as rocking-horse poo and the flybridge seems a tad smaller than the boat above

    Outline spec:

    Possibly controversially for a UK based boat; Iím attracted to having a passerelle; as I think have a large crane on the back of the boat will help with launching/ retrieving the tender, and I could have a tender with a larger engine. The Princess sometimes came with a mini retractable crane, which might do the job even better (as it would not be in the way).

    We would also like a generator, mainly to keep fridges / freezer running. Fridges and even freezers should be 12v capable. You will find genset noise a bit intrusive at that age. There are still a very worth while thing to have and I fully endorse getting one, if only for the AC option mentioned above

    Retrofitting passerelles / cranes / generators seems to expensive, so buying a boat with one fitted would seem like a sensible option. Definitely, if you can get a boat with all the kit on its a much more cost effective way to go provided it all works 100%. fixing kit can be expansive as well.

    I think diesel heating is essential for the UK, but Iím thinking most boats with passerelle and generator will be Ďmed specí and not have this. From reading other threads I believe this can be retrofitted for c£3k, which I think will be less than the costs of a decent passerelle / generator. If you are getting a med spec boat, especially if it comes from the med, with generator and passarelle its very likely it will have air conditioning. If you get a boat with AC then you wont need a diesel heater. AC on reverse cycle works extremely well to warm a boat. In my opinion much better than a webasto heater. I even heat half my house with reverse cycle heat pumps when I can

    Some boats have large davits for a tender. These seem to prevent any movement across the swim platform- which for us would seem to be a PITA. Totally agree davits suck. A passerelle works well, a dedicated crane even better (perversely I have both and much prefer the crane). Be careful about lifting limits though, a pass on those size boats will probably have a maximum lift of 200kg. And that's if factory installed. Lots of boats had dealer fit pass (mine did) so make sure the transom was also strengthened to cope (mine was but badly, now fixed)

    Iím very conscious I have not lived on a boat with these features, so what I picture in my minds eye, may be less practical in real life (e.g. see Jezís feedback re: practicalities of eating on the f/b).

    Potential Markets:

    Aside from the UK, most boats appear to be in France, Spain, Croatia, Italy, Turkey & Greece. Of the non-UK destinations are there any which are recommended, or best avoided? IMHO Turkey and Greece just seem too far away to be practical Ė but am I missing a trick? Er, so I quite publicly bought a boat in Greece once. There are probably a few around here who remember it. Worked out ok in the end and I made a profit when I sold it but I probably aged an extra 5 years in the process. I would avoid Turkey - they aren't in the EU (we still are - just), so there will be import and tax complications on top of the normal foreign transaction obstacles. France and Spain are pretty easy to do, I've been involved with a purchase in both (my current boat was french). Lots of boats in the med are actually German owned and they are pretty easy to deal with as well (my Greek boat was German flagged). Croatia is by all accounts straight forward and Italy is a mixed bag. i personally had a very bad experience trying to buy there but I think I was just very unlucky, there are a few Brits who have bought very successfully with no problems and there are Italian forum members who will likely help out.

    The market

    It seems to be a sellerís market at the moment. My perception is boat prices seem to have increased from 2 Ė 3 years ago, and that is borne out by the price I sold my boat for (+10%), and comparing todayís boat prices with quoted from threads from 2016/17. This feels like a blip to me, as it does not seem logical that 10 Ė 20 yo boats residuals are increasing, so I may need to wait a while to pick something up for a more reasonable price. I agree on the market. From a UK point of view a lot of the inflation is currency driven. I know I cannot replace my boat for what I paid, not even close. What I will say is buying a boat in reality is never a sensible use of your money in purely economic terms. Enjoyment and fun is where the value is, and I really wouldn't worry about the state of the market and second guessing it. Used stuff appreciates all the time, cars do it, houses do it so why should boats do it? in fact look at a lot of 1980s stuff - it sells in £ terms for more than it was bought for, its just inflation. If you find a boa in good condition with the spec you want at a price you are comfortable with then buy it and start the enjoyment payback. If you worry that you might find a better/cheaper one tomorrow youll never buy a boat again. Just my 2ps worth
    Last edited by Whitelighter; 28-04-19 at 10:05.
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  4. #24
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Home: Bristol, Boat: Torquay
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    147

    Default Re: Wanted - 38' Flybridge

    Thanks Jez

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Home: Bristol, Boat: Torquay
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    147

    Default Re: Wanted - 38' Flybridge

    If you buy a boat from Europe, presumably all the electric sockets are not UK standard. Using travel plus adapters would drive me up the wall. I'm not very good with electrics. What does it take to change them to UK sockets? Eg. it is just replacing the sockets themselves, or is there more to it than that?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
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    Default Re: Wanted - 38' Flybridge

    Just replace the sockets. I’ve swapped Italian for schucko in my boat.
    Or just slide an adaptor into each socket
    It’s very simple either way

    Your choice
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  7. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    16,958

    Default Re: Wanted - 38' Flybridge

    Quote Originally Posted by Whitelighter View Post
    there are Italian forum members who will likely help out.
    Why the plural J, are there any others? Not that I'm jeaolus, mind, just curious.
    @DW: I can confirm you that I'm happy to help as much as I can, anyway!

  8. #28
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    Apr 2005
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    Default Re: Wanted - 38' Flybridge

    Quote Originally Posted by MapisM View Post
    Why the plural J, are there any others? Not that I'm jeaolus, mind, just curious.
    @DW: I can confirm you that I'm happy to help as much as I can, anyway!
    You are such a good member you count twice...
    Free supercharging Tesla referral code http://ts.la/jez9763

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    16,958

    Default Re: Wanted - 38' Flybridge

    Wow, I'm flattered. I will start using the "Royal we" when posting!
    Last edited by MapisM; 28-04-19 at 20:10.

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Home: Bristol, Boat: Torquay
    Posts
    147

    Default Re: Wanted - 38' Flybridge

    Quote Originally Posted by MapisM View Post
    @DW: I can confirm you that I'm happy to help as much as I can, anyway!
    awesome - thank you

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