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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Studland MCZ decision coming soon

    Quote Originally Posted by Giblets View Post
    Yes, a major error by the conservationists as they didn't expect them to multiply to the extent that they have. They are also decimating the smaller bird populations.
    OH decimating is such a word used to frequently to describe mass extinctions
    You do realise that Red Kites are natural to the Eco system of this country and were hunted to extinction and that if they are multiplying it means that there is plenty of food around and therefore a good healthy ecosystem, if you do not have top down predation you end up with an unbalanced ecosystem
    these Birds are not decimating anything but keeping natural selection in check therefore not allowing a dominant species to take over , and in hard winters or lack of food these birds will suffer , it is the natural order of things .
    This is why large predators are fewer in number than the predated .
    Flying birds have no master

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Studland MCZ decision coming soon

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingGoose View Post
    OH decimating is such a word used to frequently to describe mass extinctions
    You do realise that Red Kites are natural to the Eco system of this country and were hunted to extinction and that if they are multiplying it means that there is plenty of food around and therefore a good healthy ecosystem, if you do not have top down predation you end up with an unbalanced ecosystem
    these Birds are not decimating anything but keeping natural selection in check therefore not allowing a dominant species to take over , and in hard winters or lack of food these birds will suffer , it is the natural order of things .
    This is why large predators are fewer in number than the predated .
    But Flying Goose, round 'ere the Kestrels have all but vanished as well as the Buzzards.

    The Kites have driven them off.

    They are almost to Northampton to the North, well past Swindon to the West, into London to the East and as far as Winchester to the South.

    In my town they require management. Impressive bird as they are there are far too many.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Studland MCZ decision coming soon

    Quote Originally Posted by rotrax View Post
    But Flying Goose, round 'ere the Kestrels have all but vanished as well as the Buzzards.

    The Kites have driven them off.

    They are almost to Northampton to the North, well past Swindon to the West, into London to the East and as far as Winchester to the South.

    In my town they require management. Impressive bird as they are there are far too many.
    fair point problem is how to control humanly
    Flying birds have no master

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Studland MCZ decision coming soon

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingGoose View Post
    Beavers in Scotland create habitat by creating natural wetlands which increases biodiversity of the Wild , a sterile land in no good for anyone but the Sheep.
    But they don't stay there. They breed and move onto agricultural land where their dams interfere with drainage and damage crops.
    ۞

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Studland MCZ decision coming soon

    We have a great tradition of managing wildlife in the UK.
    The reason wildlife here is so much more prolific than in most European countries is because a great deal of our countyside is managed sympatheticaly.

    The large increase of Magpies, Red Kites, Badgers, Foxes and certain species of non native Deer in the area I am fortunate enough to live in shows me quite clearly that a policy of control and management would be of benifit to wildlife in general.

    The surfit of magpies around here means very few songbirds bring their young to fledging-the Magpies clear the eggs and young birds like a production line going down a hedgerow. Foxes around here are Urban creatures as well as wood and field dwellers. I told you earlier that the Kites have seen the Kestrels and Buzzards off, the Badgers are doing the same with the Hedgehogs. I have not seen a roadkill Hedgehog for a while, but within a five mile stretch of the A34 near here there are five roadkill Badgers.

    Five years ago such a sight was remarkable-not now, they are becoming a pest.

    These are purely observations by a retired stalker and naturalist who keeps his eyes open.

    Balance, IMHO, will require human intervention.
    Last edited by rotrax; 08-05-19 at 21:33.

  6. #46
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    Default Re: Studland MCZ decision coming soon

    Quote Originally Posted by DJE View Post
    But they don't stay there. They breed and move onto agricultural land where their dams interfere with drainage and damage crops.
    Beavers stay near flowing rivers were they Dam the flow with shrubs and trees , and very little land gets flooded , and if it does flood it generally is land not used for agriculture as it is at river edges and forest land
    European Beaver, Golden Eagles , Red Kites and Ospreys are all native to Scotland, remarkably the Red deer is not and is one of the biggest destroyers of habitat loss in Scotland , but we maintain large flocks to entertain rich people to shoot them
    The vast majority of Scots do not benefit from such activities were as Wildlife Tourism and eco tourism is a market leader and benefits all including rich Arab land owners of estates
    I am always biased Im a conservationist what do you expect
    Flying birds have no master

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Studland MCZ decision coming soon

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingGoose View Post
    I am always biased Im a conservationist what do you expect
    Me, I just follow the news. I first heard it on the BBC but then there are:-

    https://www.scottishfield.co.uk/outd...s-land-owners/

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...ter-engineers/

    https://www.devonwildlifetrust.org/s...ary%202016.pdf

    and many more I'm sure.
    ۞

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Studland MCZ decision coming soon

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyingGoose View Post
    European Beaver, Golden Eagles , Red Kites and Ospreys are all native to Scotland, remarkably the Red deer is not and is one of the biggest destroyers of habitat loss in Scotland .

    That is a strange comment from a career conservationist.

    Wiki says quite clearly Red Deer are indiginous to Scotland.

    Which is what I have always known.

    It also says the French population is doing very well, expanding rapidly.

    AFAIK, red deer only cause severe damage to habitat when food is scarce during hard winters when they tend to ring bark trees-eating the bark within reach.

    Which is why, in our exellently managed forests, food is supplied to deer in hard times to stop this happening.

    I have been closely involved with deer management and I can assure Flying Goose that on estates where no paying punters shoot, the Deer are managed to ensure their wellbeing and health. Control of numbers can be important here, to ensure the natural food supply is adequate and there are not too many stroppy bucks fighting and injuring themselves during the rut.

    Bucks and old doe's past their prime are also culled in the interest of a healthy population.

    And, of course, a well hung haunch of Venison is a culinary delight!

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Studland MCZ decision coming soon

    I think you need to look more closely at Beavers before you get too enthusiastic Flying Goose: BBC's Countryfile reports:

    "Evidence from North America and Germany shows the considerable risk to infrastructure – including flood defence assets, roads and railways – from allowing beavers to become established in high risk and populated areas. An adult beaver can bring down a 10 inch wide tree in under an hour, and a single beaver family will fell up to 300 trees a year. In the upper Danube region of Germany, beavers have caused 5 million of damage. How will riverside residents feel when the only tree in their garden is gnawed down overnight? Or a beaver dam floods a housing estate that has never before flooded? The problem with beavers is that they are very secretive and mainly nocturnal, and they don’t stay put, so they will spread from rural areas to villages and the edges of towns and cities."

    Yes that report does list a number of benefits from allowing their return, but those benefits are largely to the Beavers and their locality, and as above can have disasterous wider consequences both to man and beast. As Rotrax points out with his Red Kites, they have acted as an entirely invasive species, ousting and eliminating other species and having a thoroughly detrimental effect.

    We are re-introducing a species capable of substantially and rapidly modifying the countryside, and which was originally eradicated as a pest. Modern countryside is totally different to the Middle Ages when it was last present, and as far as I am aware nobody has tried to assess what happens when Beaver populations expand. Clearly Countryfile has serious misgivings about their effect on modern intensively used countryside and sub-urban communities. Natural England have allowed them to be re-established, but with a number of strict caveats which include the above, and the risk of them spreading disease.

    There is clearly the possibility that, although they were indigenous 400 years ago, they would now come into the category of 'invasive species' capable of doing a great deal of damage to the eco systems of modern countryside. I am as much a conservationist as you are, but I have grave misgivings about altering the present balance of things without much more careful examination of the possible consequences.

    Studland is just such a case: The essential eelgrass and its inhabitants have evolved to what they are today alongside intensive long term human use. Our own limited investigation shows it to be in slightly above average condition compared to neighbouring locations. Removing that substantial influence from the Bay might have entirely unforseen effects. Nobody has made any viable study of what has developed or why. the only truly objective report concluded that it could find no correlation between anchoring and eelgrass health in this location, yet the main objective of creating an MCZ is to stop people anchoring. This report makes it clear this will make little or no difference to the wildlife, though it will be a major loss to the leisure boating community and the Touristy industry.

    Anthropomorphic influences have a major part in the way eco-systems such as this have developed. It is not wise to remove such a strong influence without first understanding a great deal more clearly just how the systems work. Conservation history is littered with the disastrous results of well intentioned but under-researched changes which were supposed to help.
    Last edited by oldharry; 09-05-19 at 09:19.
    Is Conservation for wildlife or conservationists?
    http://boatownersresponse.org.uk

  10. #50
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    Dec 2010
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    Default Re: Studland MCZ decision coming soon

    I have a wonderful book in my extensive library called "Three against the Wilderness" by Eric Collier.

    The Canadian land he settled on was changing from well watered, well wooded and grassed parure to dusty desert. Beef cattle, a valuable scource of income for the hardworking ranchers and farmers, and the extensive native wildlife, were suffering big time.

    After speaking with Native Canadian Indians the problem was thought to be fast water runaway from the land.

    Beaver were re-introduced and very quickly the dams they built held the water back, restoring the land to its former quality.

    BUT-and a big, big BUT-the sparsely populated Canadian wilderness is a totally different kettle of fish to heavily populated and highly developed Europe.

    Horses for courses.

    Red Kites and Badgers, in South Oxfordshire are in abundance, to the extent that, IMHO, they need managing.

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