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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    1,390

    Default Re: WIndward Boat Keeps Clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by TLouth7 View Post
    Tide affects the two ground tracks differently, for example the track of a boat running downriver won't be affected, while that of a boat close-hauled across the river might change by 45 degrees (putting their tracks at right angles).
    You (or the boat you're about to hit) can't see the ground track. Current has no effect in 'right of way' dynamics.

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    London / Suffolk
    Posts
    706

    Default Re: WIndward Boat Keeps Clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by anoccasionalyachtsman View Post
    You (or the boat you're about to hit) can't see the ground track. Current has no effect in 'right of way' dynamics.
    Being awkward, what about a situation in fog where you are relying on AIS / Radar to spot the other vessel? Then the ground track would be relevant
    Someone more informed will come along any minute

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Posts
    502

    Default Re: WIndward Boat Keeps Clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by dolabriform View Post
    Being awkward, what about a situation in fog where you are relying on AIS / Radar to spot the other vessel? Then the ground track would be relevant
    In fog, section III would apply so none of the section II rules apply anyway. Even if they did, you are using exactly the same technique to judge risk of collision (i.e. constant bearing decreasing range). It is not the relative ground track of the vessels that determines responsibilities under section II, it is relative heading.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    284

    Default Re: WIndward Boat Keeps Clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by anoccasionalyachtsman View Post
    You (or the boat you're about to hit) can't see the ground track. Current has no effect in 'right of way' dynamics.
    I agree but OP originally said that the boats were at right-angles. It then transpired that the tracks were at right angles but not the headings. Someone then said that it wouldn't make any difference, implying that the angle between headings and tracks would be the same regardless of tidal flow. I disagree with that, and hopefully demonstrated why it isn't true.

    This could cause confusion if relying on AIS tracks, for example a boat that is broad reaching with a cross tide could appear at first glance to be on the opposite tack.

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    18,860

    Default Re: WIndward Boat Keeps Clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by dolabriform View Post
    He's not the only one
    Imagine no collisions

    It's easy if you try.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Deale, MD, USA
    Posts
    1,574

    Default Re: WIndward Boat Keeps Clear?

    Oddly, there is an option that few ever mention. Slow down. It's what you would do in a car.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Boat Orwell - Me Norwich
    Posts
    7,261

    Default Re: WIndward Boat Keeps Clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
    Oddly, there is an option that few ever mention. Slow down. It's what you would do in a car.
    Unless you are the 'stand on' vessel. (Rule 17(a)(i))

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Greenwich
    Posts
    7,155

    Default Re: WIndward Boat Keeps Clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleSister View Post
    Unless you are the 'stand on' vessel. (Rule 17(a)(i))
    As discussed earlier you may decide to be courteous and change course or speed before a collision situation really develops, but the big issue with slowing down in that case (to me) is that the courteous action has to be blindingly obvious and exaggerated so the person knows what you are doing, which is fine for a tack or change of course but no good for something as subtle as slowing down. So if slowing down is the only option, then I go with colregs on this one.

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,390

    Default Re: WIndward Boat Keeps Clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by TLouth7 View Post
    I agree but OP originally said that the boats were at right-angles. It then transpired that the tracks were at right angles but not the headings. Someone then said that it wouldn't make any difference, implying that the angle between headings and tracks would be the same regardless of tidal flow. I disagree with that, and hopefully demonstrated why it isn't true.

    This could cause confusion if relying on AIS tracks, for example a boat that is broad reaching with a cross tide could appear at first glance to be on the opposite tack.


    The plotter tracks change when tide is introduced, but vessels headings and relative bearings certainly don't. Looking at the plotter in a developing situation you should be looking at the relative bearing, not the angle between the tracks.

    Edit. Plotters shouldn't be relied on to determine tack/gybes of other vessels, there are other variables.
    Last edited by anoccasionalyachtsman; 17-05-19 at 18:57.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    London
    Posts
    5,821

    Default Re: WIndward Boat Keeps Clear?

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Imagine no collisions

    It's easy if you try.
    THATS ENOUGH!
    Before someone brings up the brotherhood of man and no one wants to be reminded of them.

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