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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    114

    Default Advice needed from a dinghy sailor

    I have an old walker bay 8 for which i have made a rudder, dagger board and sailing gear . i used an old windsurfer mast and sail and made up my own gooseneck etc from delrin block . i have sailed it and all is ok from beam reach aft but she will not go to windward and definitely will not tack . i think that using a gf pole from a ws with its flex may be the problem . i was thinking it may be better if i rig shrouds and a forestay ( probably just rope and not sure how i would attach at the top ). anyone with experience have any advice ?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Bath / Starcross / Wrabness
    Posts
    1,104

    Default Re: Advice needed from a dinghy sailor

    Is it because the centre of effort in the sail is too far forward?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: Advice needed from a dinghy sailor

    Thats what i would have thought but the walker bay sail kit for the boat is very similar but with an aluminum pole and that seems to go to windward ok .

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Looe Cornwall
    Posts
    203

    Default Re: Advice needed from a dinghy sailor

    Think of a Laser dinghy where it has an unstayed and very flexible (bendy) mast. The laser works extremely well to windward. It's as others have stated, and is all about the centre of effort between the hull, mast position and centreboard. Get that right and she will go to windward.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    36,209

    Default Re: Advice needed from a dinghy sailor

    Quote Originally Posted by Mavis View Post
    Think of a Laser dinghy where it has an unstayed and very flexible (bendy) mast. The laser works extremely well to windward. It's as others have stated, and is all about the centre of effort between the hull, mast position and centreboard. Get that right and she will go to windward.
    The laser mast is not very bendy. The bottom section is a hefty old lump of aluminium.
    The mast bends due to applying a serious amount of kicker tension.
    A more flexible mast might be bending sideways too much.
    As well as centres of effort etc, you need to consider fullness of the sail and what the head of the sail is doing. If the top bends off to leeward, the angle of attack of the top is all wrong and you're doomed.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Looe Cornwall
    Posts
    203

    Default Re: Advice needed from a dinghy sailor

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    The laser mast is not very bendy. The bottom section is a hefty old lump of aluminium.
    The mast bends due to applying a serious amount of kicker tension.
    A more flexible mast might be bending sideways too much.
    As well as centres of effort etc, you need to consider fullness of the sail and what the head of the sail is doing. If the top bends off to leeward, the angle of attack of the top is all wrong and you're doomed.
    I think you are splitting hairs here, yes the bottom section is a tube where the walls are slightly thicker than the top section. You don't want to give the presumably inexperienced poster the idea that the the bottom section is solid aluminium. Yes, the laser mast bends backwards by adding a lot of kicker, but it will also bend off sideways at the top in the gusts. Yes, if the sail is not working properly it will not perform well. However, the point is that the CE needs to be in the right place and I think if he experiments with that then he will get the thing to sail on all points of the wind.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Poole
    Posts
    427

    Default Re: Advice needed from a dinghy sailor

    Quote Originally Posted by dunkelly View Post
    I have an old walker bay 8 for which i have made a rudder, dagger board and sailing gear . i used an old windsurfer mast and sail and made up my own gooseneck etc from delrin block . i have sailed it and all is ok from beam reach aft but she will not go to windward and definitely will not tack . i think that using a gf pole from a ws with its flex may be the problem . i was thinking it may be better if i rig shrouds and a forestay ( probably just rope and not sure how i would attach at the top ). anyone with experience have any advice ?
    How much leeway are you making when you try to go to windward?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    24

    Default Re: Advice needed from a dinghy sailor

    Hi Dunkelly
    I think you are on the right track and a webbing snare on top of mast with non stretch rope shrouds the next step. However it's not the ideal shroud load point for a ws mast as you will know.
    Windsurfers counteract mast tip flex to leeward by shifting c of e forwards when going upwind.
    If this fix works you can then look for an epoxy ws mast and consider sewing webbing into sail sleeve at say 3/4 height for shrouds.
    Hope it sorts!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    36,209

    Default Re: Advice needed from a dinghy sailor

    Quote Originally Posted by Mavis View Post
    I think you are splitting hairs here, yes the bottom section is a tube where the walls are slightly thicker than the top section. You don't want to give the presumably inexperienced poster the idea that the the bottom section is solid aluminium. Yes, the laser mast bends backwards by adding a lot of kicker, but it will also bend off sideways at the top in the gusts. Yes, if the sail is not working properly it will not perform well. However, the point is that the CE needs to be in the right place and I think if he experiments with that then he will get the thing to sail on all points of the wind.
    Not unless the shape of the sail is roughly right from top to bottom.
    Some photos would help.
    It might just be that, like the laser, a lot of leach tension will help, both moving the head of the sail back, and giving it a good angle of attack to the wind.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Devon
    Posts
    2,202

    Default Re: Advice needed from a dinghy sailor

    The top bending off to leeward is not a problem, it's used in yachts and dinghies for gust response/twist and as others have said the Laser works (sort of OK)

    It's all about centre of effort assuming the sail looks half reasonable, sheeted in hard the boat should head up, I've also sailed a walker bay8 with their sailing rig and it isn't easy to get it to go upwind very well. It's short with lots of rocker so no directional stability. Bigger dagger board, further forewards or centre of sail further back. Lay the sail out and measure the centre of effort would be my first move. I've rigged windsurf sails (with standard boom) on a skateboard and fore and aft angle of mast makes a huge difference. The windsurf sail going upwind is raked back and you can't do that with a rigid mount for the mast, so rake the mast or move it further back should work.
    quicKutter rope cutter, shaft and rudder bearings
    www.h4marine.com

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