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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    167

    Default Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Hello,

    I was wondering the committee's thoughts on my new-to-me boat's electrics. My feelings are that they are above average for a 25-year-old boat, probably because it was with a single owner that whole time.

    These connectors look a bit basic and DIY, but I don't see an immediate need to to renew them - I think it's the sheer number of spade connectors that make them look so ugly (to my eye at least), but surely these are up to the job?








    I'm inclined in future to use some of those connectors that heatshrink and solder in one. Assuming this proposal meets your approval, what should I heat them with? Gas-powered soldering iron?



    Thanks in advance for any thoughts you might have.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    748

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Clean, dry, no corrosion, tied together in straight lines. As you say, above average.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Wolverhampton, UK Boat: Gosport
    Posts
    118

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Looking at the condition, I'd say leave them alone...
    on the other hand I wouldn't have fitted them in the first place, I'd have soldered them together and sealed them with shrink to do a proper job.
    What ever suits you, I guess.
    George

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    656

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Current legislation says they are not allowed to solder any joint anymore. I still do but I'm not a professional fitter. Vibration can cause fracturing of the wire hardened by soldering.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Celtic Fringe
    Posts
    13,995

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Functional, but could be a whole lot better.
    Cynical Scottish almost retired engineer.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Celtic Fringe
    Posts
    13,995

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tammany View Post
    Current legislation says they are not allowed to solder any joint anymore. I still do but I'm not a professional fitter. Vibration can cause fracturing of the wire hardened by soldering.
    Who is going to inspect the boat?

    What legislation is this? Can you point me at a reference - thanks.
    Cynical Scottish almost retired engineer.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    South Coast
    Posts
    5,083

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tammany View Post
    Current legislation says they are not allowed to solder any joint anymore. I still do but I'm not a professional fitter. Vibration can cause fracturing of the wire hardened by soldering.
    I would be interested to read the legislation referred to - can you provide a link or reference.

    Whereas I sometimes have little choice but to use dry pressed crimps, I far prefer the folded crimp which provides an unbreakable attachment of the crimp to the wire. I would certainly break each joint with exposed conductors and slip a piece of adhesive filled shrinkwrap over each, at the same time giving each a good tug to check the wire is secure in the crimp.

    Is there a wiring diagram - I note some cables are numbered ?

    I don't like the heavy duty cable ties pulling lighter conductors out of their natural alignment immediately the wires exit the crimps.

    If this were my boat I would try to trace out each cable and apply a mark of my own as part of an improvement to or creation of more detailed wiring diagrams. There is an excellent App for Mac users called Electric Design I would recommend for this purpose. I would certainly spend some time improving joint integrity, protection and security.

    Finally I assume and certainly hope none of these are 240v !
    Interested in Corvettes PM me for details of the Corvette Motorboat Association

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    River Itchen, Southampton
    Posts
    6,897

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by KompetentKrew View Post
    Hello,

    I was wondering the committee's thoughts on my new-to-me boat's electrics. My feelings are that they are above average for a 25-year-old boat, probably because it was with a single owner that whole time.

    These connectors look a bit basic and DIY, but I don't see an immediate need to to renew them - I think it's the sheer number of spade connectors that make them look so ugly (to my eye at least), but surely these are up to the job?








    I'm inclined in future to use some of those connectors that heatshrink and solder in one. Assuming this proposal meets your approval, what should I heat them with? Gas-powered soldering iron?



    Thanks in advance for any thoughts you might have.
    They’ve been crimped with decent tools not a cheap Halfords tool or mole grips, so if they remain reliable don’t worry. (Edit I’ve just spotted some have been done with mole grips - give them a pull and see if they fall off)

    When adding new or replacing them then the heat shrink terminals give a forever job. Note you need a different crimp tool as the sizes are slightly different. An in-line crimp when shrunk is so well sealed it can be used in a place that is permanently wet such as a shower sump.

    I never solder joints when crimps are so easy (with proper ratchet tools) and have greater longevity as they don’t introduce hard spots.

    A good kit to have onboard
    https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/80-pi...minal-kit.html

    And the tool
    https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/heat-...ping-tool.html

    I use a cheap barbecue lighter to shrink them - just keep it moving.

    Another edit I also agree with superheat’s comments above. Folded crimps (another tool) are particularly useful when you want to put a multi connector in dry places.

    Things like this https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/26-pi...minal-kit.html
    Last edited by Elessar; 27-05-19 at 07:17.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Perth WA
    Posts
    1,964

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandy View Post
    Who is going to inspect the boat?

    What legislation is this? Can you point me at a reference - thanks.
    Maybe

    Making Secure Connections
    Which Is Better, Soldering or Crimping Terminals?
    Most wire problems happen at the connections, and the experts are mostly in agreement on this one. Connections should be mechanically connected, not just soldered. Per ABYC (E-11.16.3.7), “Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit¯”. Further, crimping provides a solid mechanical connection resistant to “cold joints”¯ breaking under fatigue, and removes strain.


    https://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...n-boats.10445/

    Boat Building Regulations | Boat Electrical Systems
    newboatbuilders.com/pages/elect_a.html

    Jan 10, 2017 - Wires should be supported using clips or straps, at least every 18 inches (45.5 cm), ... When you solder the wire it becomes essentially a solid single conductor wire. It forms ... Some marine wiring experts even advocate not using solder at all.

    General wiring standards for boats in the US - an introduction to USCG ...
    https://shop.pkys.com/wiring-standards.html

    Nov 16, 2018 - Metals used for connections cannot be Aluminum or unplated Steel. Solder is permitted but cannot be the sole means of making the connection. ... Solder also tends to make the end of the wire into a solid wire as it wicks into the stranded conductors

    WORTH READING THIS THREAD
    http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-446200.html

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Celtic Fringe
    Posts
    13,995

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by coopec View Post
    Maybe

    Making Secure Connections
    Which Is Better, Soldering or Crimping Terminals?
    Most wire problems happen at the connections, and the experts are mostly in agreement on this one. Connections should be mechanically connected, not just soldered. Per ABYC (E-11.16.3.7), “Solder shall not be the sole means of mechanical connection in any circuit¯”. Further, crimping provides a solid mechanical connection resistant to “cold joints”¯ breaking under fatigue, and removes strain.


    https://forums.sailboatowners.com/in...n-boats.10445/

    Boat Building Regulations | Boat Electrical Systems
    newboatbuilders.com/pages/elect_a.html

    Jan 10, 2017 - Wires should be supported using clips or straps, at least every 18 inches (45.5 cm), ... When you solder the wire it becomes essentially a solid single conductor wire. It forms ... Some marine wiring experts even advocate not using solder at all.

    General wiring standards for boats in the US - an introduction to USCG ...
    https://shop.pkys.com/wiring-standards.html

    Nov 16, 2018 - Metals used for connections cannot be Aluminum or unplated Steel. Solder is permitted but cannot be the sole means of making the connection. ... Solder also tends to make the end of the wire into a solid wire as it wicks into the stranded conductors

    WORTH READING THIS THREAD
    http://www.ybw.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-446200.html
    Thanks for the links. Looks like non UK legislation and only applicable to new builds.

    What really concerns me is the comment I have highlighted in red (rubbish if you are colour blind) that somebody might think that soldered wire might be a bad idea on a boat. I know I am a fussy old Safety Engineer but on what basis have they come to that opinion?
    Cynical Scottish almost retired engineer.

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