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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Me: Johannesburg South Africa Yacht: Richards Bay East Coast Africa
    Posts
    6,886

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRainbow View Post
    Anyone care to hazard a guess how much extra time and cost would be added to a modern mid 30ft cruiser if the builders had to crimp, solder and heatshrink every connection throughout the boat ?

    How about a modern car, with all of its electronics ?
    To reduce production costs is one of the main reasons for the use of crimping of cable of all kinds.

    The development of insulation displacement connectors was as a result of the cost of joining multi cables to connectors.

    Even the DB25 RS 232 connector is available as an IDC connector.

    crimp connectors are an advantage to some like Paul as time is money and the quicker the job can be done the higher the income. Also once he job is done its the owner we has to suffer any subsequent issues.

    I do use insulated crimps with a ratchet crimp tool but some crimp pins used in some of the multi pin connectors are not insulated as then fit into a housing. These need a different crimp tool. Also some multi pin connectors require solder but do support the cable as should be done with any soldered joint.

    There are many ways of doing a job and it depends on skills and equipment available and personal views.

    Paul seems to think that its his way or the highway. Not so and when we can accept that different people have different but acceptable to the operator the better for the less experienced forma user the better.
    Life is too short not to have a sea view
    Distantshaws tinyurl.com/yclt6l68

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Posts
    309

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulRainbow View Post
    Anyone care to hazard a guess how much extra time and cost would be added to a modern mid 30ft cruiser if the builders had to crimp, solder and heatshrink every connection throughout the boat ?

    How about a modern car, with all of its electronics ?
    The balance of quality suffering for price

    https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/solder-sleeves/8199874/.
    £0.57 ea
    https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/crimp...inals/0534648/
    £0.09 ea

    Apart from soldering, which can have a place to and a place not to, what else was nonsense?

  3. #53
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Suffolk
    Posts
    7,645

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    [QUOTE=Rogershaw;6799202]

    You really can't help yourself, can you ? You are unable to make a post without having a little dig.

    crimp connectors are an advantage to some like Paul as time is money and the quicker the job can be done the higher the income. Also once he job is done its the owner we has to suffer any subsequent issues.
    That's nonsense. Time is indeed money, but it isn't my money, it's the customer that has to pay. I charge by the hour, so i could make extra money by farting around soldering every connection, but that would be a waste of my customers money. As for your snide dig about customers having to suffer subsequent issues, that's also nonsense. I stand by all of my work and would be happy to return to a customers boat and fix any mistake i made or re-make any bad connection that failed. So far, not had to return to any boat to re-make any connection, ever.

    I do use insulated crimps with a ratchet crimp tool but some crimp pins used in some of the multi pin connectors are not insulated as then fit into a housing. These need a different crimp tool. Also some multi pin connectors require solder but do support the cable as should be done with any soldered joint.

    There are many ways of doing a job and it depends on skills and equipment available and personal views.

    Paul seems to think that its his way or the highway. Not so and when we can accept that different people have different but acceptable to the operator the better for the less experienced forma user the better.
    I didn't say everything had to be crimped, did i ? It was someone else that said the only way was to use uninsulated crimps, solder and glue lined heat shrink. I said that was not correct. But, as usual, you don't bother to read previous posts, you just blunder in and start an argument.
    Rainbow Marine.
    www.rainbowmarine.co.uk

  4. #54
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Suffolk
    Posts
    7,645

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rocksteadee View Post
    Sorry, was there a point there ?

    Apart from soldering, which can have a place to and a place not to, what else was nonsense?
    Your claim that crimping uninsulated crimps, then soldering them, then heat shrinking them being the only correct way of doing it was total nonsense. That can have no benefit and can easily lead to issues that simply using. If a good quality insulated crimp is correctly fitted, using reasonable tool, it is as good as any other method and for most connections on a boat it's perfect.

    I did not say that solder does not have a place, any more than i said uninsulated terminals don't have a place. I carry a full range of insulated and uninsulated terminals, as well as soldering equipment. I use that which is appropriate for the job i'm doing. At no time will i crimp and then solder, it's one or the other.
    Rainbow Marine.
    www.rainbowmarine.co.uk

  5. #55
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Me: Johannesburg South Africa Yacht: Richards Bay East Coast Africa
    Posts
    6,886

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    [QUOTE=PaulRainbow;6799242]
    Quote Originally Posted by Rogershaw View Post

    You really can't help yourself, can you ? You are unable to make a post without having a little dig.



    That's nonsense. Time is indeed money, but it isn't my money, it's the customer that has to pay. I charge by the hour, so i could make extra money by farting around soldering every connection, but that would be a waste of my customers money. As for your snide dig about customers having to suffer subsequent issues, that's also nonsense. I stand by all of my work and would be happy to return to a customers boat and fix any mistake i made or re-make any bad connection that failed. So far, not had to return to any boat to re-make any connection, ever.



    I didn't say everything had to be crimped, did i ? It was someone else that said the only way was to use uninsulated crimps, solder and glue lined heat shrink. I said that was not correct. But, as usual, you don't bother to read previous posts, you just blunder in and start an argument.
    So why do you keep stating that any one who elects to do some think different or disagrees with you is not the proper way.

    Why can't you accept that others have a different view to yours.

    Yes I do think he when you are in a hole stop digging.
    Life is too short not to have a sea view
    Distantshaws tinyurl.com/yclt6l68

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Shropshire
    Posts
    8,704

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    I agree with most of what Paul says but would add that I have had crimped connections done with a Draper ratchet tool fail a pullout test. Admittedly the terminals were only Halfords automotive ones but I would expect (perhaps erroneously) Halfords to be reasonable quality. A friend of mine insists on laboriously soldering and heat shrinking all connections but I don't see that the more fiddly the process, the better the joint so I'll continue to crimp (but test each one). I also find it difficult to produce a good soldered joints in confined spaces whereas crimps are much more convenient and therefore produce reliable connections.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Cornwall
    Posts
    8,604

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostlymoron View Post
    I agree with most of what Paul says but would add that I have had crimped connections done with a Draper ratchet tool fail a pullout test. Admittedly the terminals were only Halfords automotive ones but I would expect (perhaps erroneously) Halfords to be reasonable quality. A friend of mine insists on laboriously soldering and heat shrinking all connections but I don't see that the more fiddly the process, the better the joint so I'll continue to crimp (but test each one). I also find it difficult to produce a good soldered joints in confined spaces whereas crimps are much more convenient and therefore produce reliable connections.
    The crimping tool I use cost £250 many years ago, it's done around 300,000 good crimps, you pays you money. In passing, we always attached the other end to switch panel via soldering to a PCB soldered, wired to avoid stress on cable joint, no problems after 30 years use on some.

    As said there is a method to suit your use.

    Brian
    Kddpowercentre VASR charge

  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Farnham, Surrey
    Posts
    21,001

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostlymoron View Post
    I agree with most of what Paul says but would add that I have had crimped connections done with a Draper ratchet tool fail a pullout test. Admittedly the terminals were only Halfords automotive ones but I would expect (perhaps erroneously) Halfords to be reasonable quality. A friend of mine insists on laboriously soldering and heat shrinking all connections but I don't see that the more fiddly the process, the better the joint so I'll continue to crimp (but test each one). I also find it difficult to produce a good soldered joints in confined spaces whereas crimps are much more convenient and therefore produce reliable connections.
    I think your mistake was to think Halfords produce or sell quality terminals. Halfords sell some quality items but they also sell some rubbish.
    Semper aliud

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Oct 2001
    Posts
    1,360

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    And there was I thinking that maybe crimping with pliers onto Halfords quality terminals might be an improvement on the chocolate blocks....

    Seems I need to solder them as well...might as well just blob solder on without the crimping.

    Seriously, how do you tell when a crimped terminal is no good? Its probably one on those somewhere which screws up the car's computer.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3,228

    Default Re: Electrical crimps - your opinion on these, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by ghostlymoron View Post
    I agree with most of what Paul says but would add that I have had crimped connections done with a Draper ratchet tool fail a pullout test. Admittedly the terminals were only Halfords automotive ones.
    This is one of the problems that you need to be aware of when crimping. A good quality terminal should be used and this needs to be matched closely to the wire. This is easy for a manufacturer using the same brand and type of wire in a limited number of sizes when producing a boat wiring loom. However, once you mix old and new wiring, metric and imperial wire sizes, different brands of terminal and crimping tool, the results can become less consistent unless a great deal of care is taken.

    In practice in the real world, less than perfect crimps often work satisfactorily. I have even seen boats with multiple wires twisted together with some insulation tape added that has been surprisingly reliable, but modern boats often have a much more demanding electrical system. Sustained currents of many hundreds of amps are not unusual, at the same time navigational equipment is transferring large amounts of data via a multitude of fine wires.

    Marine electrical practices that have traditionally worked acceptably need some review in light of the demands associated with modern yachts.

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