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Thread: Chum

  1. #81
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    Default Re: Chum

    This is one of the better 'congested' anchorages that Jester types would do well to mark on their P'Plans......
    ....both for going and coming.




  2. #82
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    Default Re: Chum

    Quote Originally Posted by doug748 View Post
    Chum or Angel in the UK, I think.

    What you call Chum is Rubby Dubby in the UK
    (except the cool dictionary now tells me it is urban argot for sex in a shower, well I never)
    I thought Chum was a trade name. Although why would anyone call something that on a dark, wet and stormy night is doing its best to mangle your fingers, a Chum?
    "Brexit: like watching a library being burned down by people who can't read"

  3. #83
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    Default Re: Chum

    Quote Originally Posted by doug748 View Post
    Chum or Angel in the UK, I think.

    What you call Chum is Rubby Dubby in the UK
    (except the cool dictionary now tells me it is urban argot for sex in a shower, well I never)
    Angel is UK. We'll add that to the list.

    But can you find ANY of these in a dictionary? Please?

    (from the Oxford dictionary)

    \chum1
    noun
    informal

    1A close friend.
    ‘she shared the cake with her chums’
    ‘an old school chum’

    2Used as a friendly or familiar form of address between men or boys.
    ‘it's your own fault, chum’


    I like kellet because as near as I can find, it doesn't mean anything else. It is specific. That is a useful characteristic in a word.
    Last edited by thinwater; 09-06-19 at 01:35.

  4. #84
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    Default Re: Chum

    My dear Drew 'Thinwater',

    Prompted by your query regarding failure to find a dictionary 'maritime' definition for CHUM as an anchoring weight, I had a peek into your Merriam-Webster ( which has been responsible for many abuses of our English language over the years ). I found nothing immediately helpful regarding CHUM.

    I did, however, find an interesting reference to 'FOLDEROL', meaning a 'useless object or ornament' ( https://www.merriam-webster.com/news...derol-20190522 ) and that, to my mind, describes the device with perhaps the precision you seek.

    Hence, I would be more than content for us to drop the ambiguous and vexatious use of 'CHUM', preferring the much more descriptive 'FOLDEROL'.......

    I am, sir, your obedient servant


  5. #85
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    Default Re: Chum

    My dear Zoidberg,

    It pains me to have to inform you that you are entirely mistaken.

    “Chum” is as Poignard correctly states, above, the trade name of a chain slider patented by an ingenious Scotsman; a very fine specimen has recently been illustrated in these pages, here:

    http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...ighlight=Angel

    but here is the top of my scruffy one:



    The cast in words are:
    CHUM
    Frank Gibson
    Gorgie
    Edinburgh

    Only these are “Chums”. Generic terms for lesser forms of chain slider include “Kellet” and “Angel”.

    Here is a photo of page 53 of the Fourth Edition of Claud Worth’s “Yacht Cruising”, in which he describes the invention of the “kellet”, “angel” or whatever (he doesn’t call it by any of these names) and explains its use:



    I respectfully submit that:

    1. If you don’t follow Worth’s directions, it won’t work properly.
    2. The only commercially made “kellet” or “angel” that ever did comply with Worth’s directions was the “Chum”
    3. Note the weights that Worth was using. Two 40 lbs pigs of ballast, on occasion three. There is no point in faffing about with anything less. I speak from experience. If you have an intact and complete “Chum”, you will have three lead weights that fit onto it. If you do not then you must add an equivalent weight.

    I will be happy to be corrected but to the best of my knowledge none of the many anchor experts has ever tested a “Chum” or indeed any slider made to Worth’s pattern with the weights Worth advises. They have all dangled a fishing weight off their chain, found it hard to retrieve, and found that it makes no difference.

    Well, “duh”...
    Last edited by Kukri; 09-06-19 at 12:13.

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Chum

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeves View Post
    I note that some use chums/angels or kellets to advantage, or say they find them useful - call it advantageous.

    I wonder what prompted the use, in the first place - what manifestation demanded a solution. They are an extra bit of kit, they can be a bit fiddly to deploy - so what makes them worth the effort

    Did the anchor drag? is the yacht simply more stable, how is the device used (suspended or on the bottom). How has the success of the chum been defined etc.

    I'm not doubting the effectiveness claimed - just looking for education.

    Jonathan
    You need to read Claud Worth’s “Yacht Cruising”. It was “the yachtsman’s Bible” from 1911 to 1947 when Hiscock’s “Cruising under sail” was published, and it’s really rather good. He did an awful lot of sailing in conditions that most of us wouldn’t fancy even in modern yachts, and he regularly used the offshore anchorages like Dungeness and the Downs that we don’t use now, because of course he had no engine before 1905 or so. One of his inventions was the chain slider and weight.
    Last edited by Kukri; 09-06-19 at 11:48.

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Chum

    Quote Originally Posted by zoidberg View Post
    My dear Drew 'Thinwater',

    Prompted by your query regarding failure to find a dictionary 'maritime' definition for CHUM as an anchoring weight, I had a peek into your Merriam-Webster ( which has been responsible for many abuses of our English language over the years ). I found nothing immediately helpful regarding CHUM.

    I did, however, find an interesting reference to 'FOLDEROL', meaning a 'useless object or ornament' ( https://www.merriam-webster.com/news...derol-20190522 ) and that, to my mind, describes the device with perhaps the precision you seek.

    Hence, I would be more than content for us to drop the ambiguous and vexatious use of 'CHUM', preferring the much more descriptive 'FOLDEROL'.......

    I am, sir, your obedient servant

    The difference is that we can find folderol in all of the major dictionaries. Thus, the meaning of the word is agreed.

    I'm just puzzled that what I think we all thought was a common item is so apparently undefined.

    Wiki defines anchor sentinel and kellet, but not chum or angel.

    Minn's answer, IMO, was dead on. Thank You. Like Kleenex, it Chum a trade name. Cool. I suppose that means we need to capitalize Chum from now on.
    Last edited by thinwater; 09-06-19 at 12:09.

  8. #88
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    Default Re: Chum

    Thank you!

    Before I acquired my Chum (on eBay, from a lady who had no idea what it was!) I used a couple of chain sliders, one galvanised effort from Davey &Co and one German bronze one, but neither of them slid on the chain properly, because they were not semicircular in cross section,, with up to three 28lbs pigs of lead ballast on strops. The Chum is much better. My way of going about using it is to anchor, then rig the Chum, and to recover the Chum before starting on the anchor. Pick it up by the handle and it unlatches.
    Last edited by Kukri; 09-06-19 at 12:38.

  9. #89
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    Default Re: Chum

    Quote Originally Posted by Minn View Post
    Thank you!

    Before I acquired my Chum (on eBay, from a lady who had no idea what it was!) I used a couple of chain sliders, one galvanised effort from Davey &Co and one German bronze one, but neither of them slid on the chain properly, because they were not semicircular in cross section,, with up to three 28lbs pigs of lead ballast on strops. The Chum is much better. My way of going about using it is to anchor, then rig the Chum, and to recover the Chum before starting on the anchor. Pick it up by the handle and it unlatches.
    How do you rig the chum and pigs? Leaning over the bow, reaching down to the chain? Sounds impossibly strenuous, so please explain. I must miss understand.

  10. #90
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    Default Re: Chum

    Quote Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
    How do you rig the chum and pigs? Leaning over the bow, reaching down to the chain? Sounds impossibly strenuous, so please explain. I must miss understand.
    It has been my experience that my Chum (I use chum as it's a short word and easy to spell) is difficult to 'slide' down a deployed chain rode, so I attach it as I deploy the chain.
    On a mixed rode, the Chum will slide down the rope.
    I did try making a saddle for the Chum to slide under but it wasn't very successful, I think made it too small.
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