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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Solent
    Posts
    3,162

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    The RNLI called it "Castle Rocks". It appears to be west of the Eastern entrance. What I find hard to work out is how I actually ended up North of the breakwater, as when they towed me to Mayflower it was both without having to pass the breakwater and directly past some anchored ships (which is why I thought I was in safe water).

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Me - Zumerzet Boat - Wareham
    Posts
    12,284

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiddle View Post
    With regards to losing GPS, assuming it was not down to an attack by a foreign power, a second device up and running during testing circumstances is a good idea.
    It has been known for RN to to jam occasionally!
    For me, not carrying paper charts, a form of backup plotter and a backup to the backup plotter (in the form of Tablet and Phone both with Ocpn and (old) CM93 charts) is essential.
    Then if the GPS I/P goes fut on all of them I know that someone has it in for me.
    MontyMariner.co.uk
    Facilitated by AWESEM WP Agency

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Solent
    Posts
    3,162

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    With regards to GPS, I have a phone with navonics on it, that too was not working as it should, it seemed to have me well inland, I have never really trusted it. I also have a hand held in the grab bag. But as i was in pilotage mode, I was mainly looking at my notes and trying to use the almanac as backup.

    I don’t subscribe to GPS blocking going on. However, I don't tend to find the Garmin or handhelds work that well when the weather gets grotty. Perhaps I need a better / external antenna.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Poole
    Posts
    282

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    Another thank you and well done for an honest offering, I agree with previous posters that without good visibility in decent weather Plymouth is testing for a small boat without accurate GPS, I've had my most tense sailing experience entering via the western entrance in a SE gale at night - and that was with GPS functioning fully, we (a good few years ago, in an Ovni & plus crew of 4) never saw the breakwater, but heard the waves crashing on it. I too sail my boat solo, but I do where possible choose to my journeys in short hops & so am almost always arriving in daylight, though I am building up to join you chaps in some Jester sailing.
    I'm not going to criticise as I'm thinking I may well have done the same as you - but what I think I know I should do is to head out again and wait a few hours for daylight, I do have AIS though which would at least show up most (I hope) of the bigger shipping.
    Thanks for posting this - it's a useful discussion I think.

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
    Posts
    20,375

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    It's a very good account Phil.

    I must say that I'm a total coward, after having had a near miss some years ago which would have probably written the boat off, so am always thinking about Plan B and Plan C. As soon as the second thing went wrong for me, I would have thrown in the towel and started going around in circles, or similar, until the light began to appear over the horizon.

    It seems a bit like an omen to me .... one thing goes wrong you put that down to bad luck and soldier on, two things go wrong in a way that one compounds the other and you have to accept that someone is now out to get you and it's time to stop and re-assess.

    Richard

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Farnham, Surrey
    Posts
    21,406

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    I’m trying to imagine myself into a similar situation, with the challenge being that I know Plymouth extremely well.

    If I was tired and needing rest with the wind in the WSW I’d be looking at the chart and feeling my way into Cawsand and dropping the hook. One eye on the echo sounder ensures you don’t hit the unlit shoreline and you feel your way round and into shelter. A big torch to watch out for mooring buoys but hopefully you’d avoid using it as it ruins your night vision. No GPS needed for any of this sort of pilotage.

    As soon as you’re anywhere sheltered it’s drop the hook on a good scope, anchor light on and check you’re not dragging and sleep. It’s the sort of thing I’ve done in many places where I’ve arrived one or two up, tired after a long passage and in the dark.

    My two penny worth FWIW.

    I admit I have the advantage of having Radar which makes the above exercise simplicity itself, but without radar it’s foolproof and safe. Just choose a shoreline with no surprise rocks. Look at the chart and make a mental note such as ‘no dangers outside the ten metre contour’ or similar. So long as the e/s reads more than ten metres plus height of tide you CAN’T hit anything.
    Last edited by john_morris_uk; 04-06-19 at 14:00.
    Semper aliud

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,790

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by john_morris_uk View Post
    I’m trying to imagine myself into a similar situation, with the challenge being that I know Plymouth extremely well.

    If I was tired and needing rest with the wind in the WSW I’d be looking at the chart and feeling my way into Cawsand and dropping the hook. One eye on the echo sounder ensures you don’t hit the unlit shoreline and you feel your way round and into shelter. A big torch to watch out for mooring buoys but hopefully you’d avoid using it as it ruins your night vision. No GPS needed for any of this sort of pilotage.

    As soon as you’re anywhere sheltered it’s drop the hook on a good scope, anchor light on and check you’re not dragging and sleep. It’s the sort of thing I’ve done in many places where I’ve arrived one or two up, tired after a long passage and in the dark.

    My two penny worth FWIW.

    I admit I have the advantage of having Radar which makes the above exercise simplicity itself, but without radar it’s foolproof and safe. Just choose a shoreline with no surprise rocks. Look at the chart and make a mental note such as ‘no dangers outside the ten metre contour’ or similar. So long as the e/s reads more than ten metres plus height of tide you CAN’T hit anything.
    I have a fraction of John's experience, and I have been luckier than Phil when I didn't deserve to be, but I would also have felt my way into Cawsand, unless the wind was in the east. I can say that with confidence as I've actually done that very thing in the past. Plymouth gives me kittens - huge entrance peppered with rocks that aren't lit, shore lights designed to confuse and a low breakwater. Yuk! Cawsand might have an unlit boat on a mooring etc but that's a lesser hazard imho.
    Last edited by Kukri; 04-06-19 at 14:19.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Ammersee, Bavaria
    Posts
    5,315

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    One thing to be very aware of is how a mobile device locates itself. In android, google will use GPS, WiFi, mobile networks, and even bluetooth to improve location accuracy, depending on the device and how the settings for location are set, it could be that your device isn't displaying a GPS position at all, but something else triangulated from cached WiFi data or other information. Apple can be just as tricky.

    In Android devices you can turn off "improve location accuracy" (on by default) which will force the device to use GPS only. It can take a bit longer to get a fix but it won't latch onto WiFi info or anything else to obtain a quick location.

    There is a good write-up here ....

    http://www.oceannavigator.com/July-A...g-electronics/

    ... anyone using an off-the-shelf tablet for navigation really needs to be aware of how the device locates itself, and that it is prudent to always be suspicious of the location and if possible, double check with a second (different) GPS device or preferably something with SBAS (Satellite Based Augmentation System, WAAS, EGNOS, GAGAN or MSAS) - especially when in close proximity to land where WiFi, Cellular and other info is available to the device.
    Last edited by Baggywrinkle; 04-06-19 at 14:58.
    The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Location
    The Known Universe
    Posts
    1,071

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
    One thing to be very aware of is how a mobile device locates itself. In android, google will use GPS, WiFi, mobile networks, and even bluetooth to improve location accuracy, depending on the device and how the settings for location are set, it could be that your device isn't displaying a GPS position at all, but something else triangulated from cached WiFi data or other information. Apple can be just as tricky.



    In Android devices you can turn off "improve location accuracy" (on by default) which will force the device to use GPS only. It can take a bit longer to get a fix but it won't latch onto WiFi info or anything else to obtain a quick location.

    There is a good write-up here ....

    http://www.oceannavigator.com/July-A...g-electronics/

    ... anyone using an off-the-shelf tablet for navigation really needs to be aware of how the device locates itself, and that it is prudent to always be suspicious of the location and if possible, double check with a second (different) GPS device or preferably something with WAAS - especially when in close vacinity to land where WiFi, Cellular and other info is available to the device.

    Very good advice , I needed to turn off all other data ingo on my yablet and have only GPS working so only OPENCPN could read it
    Flying birds have no master

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    9,790

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
    One thing to be very aware of is how a mobile device locates itself. In android, google will use GPS, WiFi, mobile networks, and even bluetooth to improve location accuracy, depending on the device and how the settings for location are set, it could be that your device isn't displaying a GPS position at all, but something else triangulated from cached WiFi data or other information. Apple can be just as tricky.

    In Android devices you can turn off "improve location accuracy" (on by default) which will force the device to use GPS only. It can take a bit longer to get a fix but it won't latch onto WiFi info or anything else to obtain a quick location.

    There is a good write-up here ....

    http://www.oceannavigator.com/July-A...g-electronics/

    ... anyone using an off-the-shelf tablet for navigation really needs to be aware of how the device locates itself, and that it is prudent to always be suspicious of the location and if possible, double check with a second (different) GPS device or preferably something with SBAS (Satellite Based Augmentation System, WAAS, EGNOS, GAGAN or MSAS) - especially when in close vacinity to land where WiFi, Cellular and other info is available to the device.
    +2. Very important point. And an excellent article showing how deceptive these gadgets can be.
    Last edited by Kukri; 04-06-19 at 15:33.

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