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  1. #71
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    36,831

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillM View Post
    Thanks for the contiunued discussion here. All very useful. A few points:

    1) I have NOT been into Plymouth so did not know my way in. Next time I shall wait for daylight before entering a strange port.

    2) I had made a paper based pilotage plan. My Plotter was backup (and it failed). Also, by the looks of it did my manual pilotage plan. I have to say that its ages (at last a year) since I went into anywhere I didn't know. Perhaps I've got complacent. Certainly, in the past I would have had a set of waypoints in my handheld GPS as backup to my pen and paper exercise. Not sure why I didn't consider that necessary for this trip. Hmm just thinking about that statement, using the HH with Wpts was before I brought a plotter .... hmm

    3) I considered anchoring but, a) I had not prepared where in advance and b) there are a lot of restricted areas inside and outside Plymouth. Lesson learned about preparing an anchorage as a backup.
    Yes there are a lot of places you would not want to anchor. In fact ISTM that safe and sensible places to anchor a small boat in poor vis and go to sleep in Plymouth Sound would be about 2% of the area. not really something to take pot luck on.
    First time I sailed into Plymouth at night it was very disorientating, despite having sailed in and out in daylight, and sailed out once years ago in the dark, and sailed dinghies there some years before.
    Portsmouth can trip you too, if you approach from a less familiar direction. I know a good bar story about a well known yotty sailing up to a channel mark and finding the wrong name on it.

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Farnham, Surrey
    Posts
    21,013

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by nortada View Post
    Not here on the East Coast.
    I can believe that from my occasions sailing there...

    "Is that seagull walking or swimming?"
    "Walking"
    "Ready about"
    Semper aliud

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Trapped between Pixies and Janners
    Posts
    200

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    With regards to anchoring in Plymouth Sound, I boarded a yacht which had anchored in fog for safety reasons north of the breakwater. Even the sound of warships manoeuvring around them later that morning didn't wake them up. They in the middle of the main track north of the breakwater fort.

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Solent
    Posts
    1,331

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by PhillM View Post
    Thanks for the contiunued discussion here. All very useful. A few points:

    1) I have NOT been into Plymouth so did not know my way in. Next time I shall wait for daylight before entering a strange port.

    2) I had made a paper based pilotage plan. My Plotter was backup (and it failed). Also, by the looks of it did my manual pilotage plan. I have to say that its ages (at last a year) since I went into anywhere I didn't know. Perhaps I've got complacent. Certainly, in the past I would have had a set of waypoints in my handheld GPS as backup to my pen and paper exercise. Not sure why I didn't consider that necessary for this trip. Hmm just thinking about that statement, using the HH with Wpts was before I brought a plotter .... hmm

    3) I considered anchoring but, a) I had not prepared where in advance and b) there are a lot of restricted areas inside and outside Plymouth. Lesson learned about preparing an anchorage as a backup.
    Sorry Phil, I'm the guilty party in 1) . I misread ......you wrote have been past Plymouth. I would agree with Plymouth being such a big entrance alternative back ups are less essential. Equally I have been in on the ferry at night and was impressed at what a large complex place it is, day and night.

    BTW I wasn't implying you did not have paperbased pilotage plan. I think the point is if you get disorientated I would dive to the plotter/GPS to get back on track, and that is the thing you could not do.

  5. #75
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    178

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Baggywrinkle View Post
    There is one other interesting anomaly I have found on my plotter - don't know if it is relevant here. I have found an occasion where the detailed chart which is displyed at the highest zoom level is actually offset, so the plotted GPS position is false by about 150m. T Chart was a C-Map card.
    I think two weeks ago I found a C-Map chart on my B&G Vulcan about 150m out. Wasn't anywhere remote, either - Rotterdam or south coast of UK.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Plymouth
    Posts
    675

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    In Plymouth;

    - You will always find QHM very helpful and always on watch. VHF 14 call-sign "Longroom".
    - For anchoring locations the anchoring and mooring guide from the Royal Western Yacht Club is a good resource, worth studying and having to hand. https://rwyc.org/anchorage-guides/

    John

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    8,879

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by nortada View Post
    Not here on the East Coast.
    I have been a true East Coaster. Ten foot bamboo pole marked in feet in the shrouds, bower anchor ready to drop, kedge anchor lashed on the foredeck with its warp stopped down on top of it, dinghy ready to launch, one eye on the echo sounder, lead and line handy...

    (But with a deeper draft and deeper waters some of these precautions can be relaxed.)

    The other gadget that I had was a slide under the companion hatch with a folded paper chart under a sheet of perspex - this was a gadget invented in the days of Albert Strange and today's version would indeed be the plotter in the cockpit.
    Last edited by Minn; 05-06-19 at 13:28.

  8. #78
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    36,831

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by Minn View Post
    I have been a true East Coaster. Ten foot bamboo pole marked in feet in the shrouds, bower anchor ready to drop, kedge anchor lashed on the foredeck with its warp stopped down on top of it, dinghy ready to launch, one eye on the echo sounder, lead and line handy...

    (But with a deeper draft and deeper waters some of these precautions can be relaxed.)

    The other gadget that I had was a slide under the companion hatch with a folded paper chart under a sheet of perspex - this was a gadget invented in the days of Albert Strange and today's version would indeed be the plotter in the cockpit.
    I may be a Luddite.
    I still like to have copies of the pilotage info on paper I can use in the cockpit. In the Solent, Check Charts.
    Further afield, photocopies of almanac pages in clear plastic sleeves.
    The passage plan is a folder/ring binder of such sleeves.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Grenoble
    Posts
    29,801

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    I am late into this thread but as I see it the fundamental problem was that at some point you lost track of your position and continued to sail unable to confirm your position. You had indeed negotiated possibly more by luck than judgement the western entrance, you did earlier make the sound decision of not attempting the eastern entrance.
    Your reliance on the plotter to confirm your position was your downfall because once it failed and you no longer were aware of your position your only course of action was to drop the hook as soon as you could and call for help, both this options have been discussed.
    What can you do to improve matters, get an external GPS arial to feed your plotter, I understand you have a small vessel but there is one piece of kit that would have ensured that you could have identified your position and land, a Radar. It does everything you needed and more from your problems with vessels at Start Point to identifying the entrance and breakwater especially if linked to your plotter with a reliable GPS feed.
    Lastly going into Plymouth it would have been wise to have a chart of the entrance and to plot your position on it especially in reduced visibility and at night. I suggest that you get one for Baltimore.
    I am not being critical as like virtually everyone here I have made similar mistakes during the learning process and been lucky enough to survive them unscathed, I also know Plymouth very well.

    Best of luck for the future and the Jester challenge. See if you can fit that external GPS aerial

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    East coast UK. Mostly. Sometimes the Philippines
    Posts
    8,879

    Default Re: What did PhillM do wrong?

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    I may be a Luddite.
    I still like to have copies of the pilotage info on paper I can use in the cockpit. In the Solent, Check Charts.
    Further afield, photocopies of almanac pages in clear plastic sleeves.
    The passage plan is a folder/ring binder of such sleeves.
    I spotted Force 4 in Lymington selling off chinagraph pencils... needless to say I bought a fistful.

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