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  1. #41
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Home - Sothampton, Boat - Gosport
    Posts
    10,027

    Default Re: Historic schooner sunk by container ship...

    121ft wooden object meets steel object four times as big, so probably 20 times the mass. There's only going to be one outcome. The steel object will probably lose some paint.
    Steve
    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    River Itchen, Southampton
    Posts
    6,964

    Default Re: Historic schooner sunk by container ship...

    Quote Originally Posted by Stemar View Post
    There was a reason I put that in inverted commas .

    Another provocative one: I can't see any sign of the commercial vessel claiming to be constrained by its draft, so it was the give way vessel.

    Whatever the legalities, I don't hold with that either. AFIAK, in such situations, when I'm the minnow meeting a whale, might is right, especially in a channel. I won't be wasting my time looking for a cylinder, I'll be working out how to keep out of its way in such a way that SS Big Bugga will know he doesn't have to worry about me.
    Fair enough - I but subtle for the hard of thinking like me.

    I think it would qualify as a narrow channel though, even if local rules didnít apply. Therefore the sailing vessel is obliged not to impede the commercial vessel. Quite evidently he did.

  3. #43
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    North from the Nab about 10 miles
    Posts
    8,833

    Default Re: Historic schooner sunk by container ship...

    It will be interesting to see the events that lead up to this, but the basic scenario surely is that the schooner was tacking up one siode of the channel. The skiper would have known that he would have to tack to clear the commercial vessel. At this point guesswork comes in: a fluke in the wind preventing which pushed him back? Inexperienced crew not comlleting the manoever quickly enough, or correctly? A cross current which pushed him back?

    Whichever, clearly the schooner fell back out of control directly under the bows of the commercial vessel and was run drown before anything could be done by either vessel to prevent the collision. Judging from the angles in the photo, I would guess the schooner tried to continue to turn down wind to try and reduce the impact, but just didnt have time to avoid being t boned, even if he did have his engine running. Seems to me there just was not enough room for him to turn enough to reduce the impact.

    The key questions are 1. what caused the schooner to miss stays, and 2, why did the schooner skipper not anticipate the possibility of missing stays and allow himself enough room to recover a missed tack? Thats not necessarily a criticism, because we dont know how much room he had in the first place, nor the placing of other vessels who may have forced him to delay his tack.
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  4. #44
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    24,274

    Default Re: Historic schooner sunk by container ship...

    Quote Originally Posted by oldharry View Post
    The key questions are 1. what caused the schooner to miss stays, and 2, why did the schooner skipper not anticipate the possibility of missing stays and allow himself enough room to recover a missed tack? Thats not necessarily a criticism, because we dont know how much room he had in the first place, nor the placing of other vessels who may have forced him to delay his tack.
    Given the proximity it is not inconceivable that it was the presence of the ship that caused the schooner to mis the tack. Or alternatively the presence of the ship forced him to try to tack before he had got up to speed following the previous tack.

    As to what the schooner skipper might have done to anticipate - what would you suggest? You can't tack a 122' schooner up a river with the same ease you can a mirror dinghy, or even a smaller sailing boat.

    I wonder if the schooner had a (working) engine - if so it is difficult to see why they weren't using it in the circumstances

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    currently in Pto Montt, Chile
    Posts
    369

    Default Re: Historic schooner sunk by container ship...

    It was just a scratch that will buff straight out....

    OK so a mast fell down but she wasn't reduced to matchsticks... in fact they got her to the shore before she settled on the bottom.... a few sprung planks methinks.

    New soft furnishings and she will be good to go......

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    114

    Default Re: Historic schooner sunk by container ship...

    There's been some pre-collison footage released:

    https://youtu.be/ry4_eJaOJmw

  7. #47
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    currently in Pto Montt, Chile
    Posts
    369

    Default Re: Historic schooner sunk by container ship...

    Quote Originally Posted by stuarta View Post
    There's been some pre-collison footage released:

    https://youtu.be/ry4_eJaOJmw
    Interesting... so she didn't 'miss stays' or get 'in irons'....

    She just sailed straight under the box boats' bow with a belated attempt to bear away..... putting the helm down and getting her 'in irons' may well have saved the day....

    Good to see the master of the box boat took my advice and gave her not one set of 5 blasts... but two sets....

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    733

    Default Re: Historic schooner sunk by container ship...

    OK that film's got me proper confused now. Contrary to previous reports, it looks like she was actually making good way on starboard tack, and then tacked across the merch's bows rather than bear away round her stern. No sign of missing stays or being in irons.

    Looks like land may have been close by (see left of shot at beginning), perhaps running out of water on a lee shore: the missed stays may have been before the.clip started.
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  9. #49
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    37,269

    Default Re: Historic schooner sunk by container ship...

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Holden View Post
    Interesting... so she didn't 'miss stays' or get 'in irons'....

    She just sailed straight under the box boats' bow with a belated attempt to bear away..... putting the helm down and getting her 'in irons' may well have saved the day....

    Good to see the master of the box boat took my advice and gave her not one set of 5 blasts... but two sets....
    I think that's a last minute attempt to tack (the tiller goes down to leeward), when bearing away behind the box boat would have been a far better choice.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    currently in Pto Montt, Chile
    Posts
    369

    Default Re: Historic schooner sunk by container ship...

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    I think that's a last minute attempt to tack (the tiller goes down to leeward), when bearing away behind the box boat would have been a far better choice.
    My mistake... I blame it on being in the southern hemisphere...

    You are correct... bearing away would have been the way to go.... but with all those trippers on deck...?

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