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  1. #51
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Bucks & St Raphael SoF
    Posts
    1,398

    Default Re: Engine cooling thermostat, how does it work

    Thanks P - I'm very tempted to fit this to mine. My only concern is that I need to step over the strainers to get to the backs of the engines - worried that they'll be a PITA. Nevertheless, very tempted. Did you drill your existing lids or make new ones?

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    17,255

    Default Re: Engine cooling thermostat, how does it work

    Quote Originally Posted by markc View Post
    Did you drill your existing lids or make new ones?
    I thought it was a good idea to keep the original, non-holed lids as spares, just in case.
    So, I had new ones made to measure, as well as already holed, by these folks.
    Made of polycarbonate as the original ones, at around 15 quid for the pair, IIRC.

    Btw, Ferretti used to fit the same strainers that I've got on my boat (made by Guidi, model "Mediterraneo", in nickel-plated bronze).
    If so, I can confirm that the original 8mm thick lid can be replaced with a 10mm one.
    Not because you have to, but just along the lines of better safe than sorry - the cost difference is irrelevant anyway.
    The lid diameter for the 3" strainer is 197mm, but for V8 engines the standard size is 2" 1/2, so maybe that's what you've got, I'm not sure.

    Don't forget to let us know, if and when you will join the Bodge club!

  3. #53
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    Volos-Athens
    Posts
    4,742

    Default Re: Engine cooling thermostat, how does it work

    way too busy (for a change) with work, so haven't followed carefully the thread, just to note that it seems I've used a slightly different approach as I have a 1.25inch pipe from the freshwater tanks going via a stopcock to the 3way toilet valves (by Trudesign) in between the strainer and seawater pump. Engine inlet and strainer are also 1.25in
    So when I want to flush the engines, I have to go to the e/r open the freshwater stopcock, close the main inlets to the strainers, then start the engines for a few mins, turn them off and then go down there again and do the opposite to leave the system at sea mode.
    I missed the point of flushing without running the engines, but I guess your bigger engines need tons of water that even the pressurised system wont do. Mine just sucks as much as it needs (in idle obviously) for a few mins and it's done.
    Main problem with the bodge, is that I think, OK, I'll go out again, wont flush now, and eventually reach Dec and haven't used the boat since Oct and then I forget it alltogether . That's what I did this winter...

    V.

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    17,255

    Default Re: Engine cooling thermostat, how does it work

    Yup Vas, letting the engine raw water pump suck fresh water from the boat tank is indeed a good alternative.
    In my boat, routing a pipe from the tank to the strainers would have been a proper PITA because the e/r is a fully w/tight compartment, with pipes from the aft lazarette to the forward cabins routed inside the stringers, hence not accessible.
    But if it weren't for this "layout-dependant" restriction, I would have considered that.

    In fact, I don't think that engine size is relevant towards the choice of using a pressurized hose from the dock vs. sucking as much water as the engine pump draws from the boat tank - in both cases, it's just a matter of having a sufficient water flow.
    Of course, in your setup, you can't backflush the strainer and the seacock, but in your boots I wouldn't lose one minute of sleep on that.
    That's pretty much in the hair splitting category, and its relevance vs. the general principle of engine flushing is like 1 vs. 10, imho.

    Ref. forgetting to flush, yeah, that sounds familiar!
    Otoh, since in your setup you don't need to deal with any dock hose, and all you have to do is open/close some valves, you might consider motorizing them.
    This way, engines flush could become just a normal routine upon every boat usage, since you could do it literally at the push of a button from the dashboard once moored, before turning the engines off!

  5. #55
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Jersey/Antibes
    Posts
    22,432

    Default Re: Engine cooling thermostat, how does it work

    @mapism & vas, one of the problems with motorised valves is that the motor boxes can be huge. I have motorised 1.5inch valves and its hard to find space to mount the boxes. Totally impossible for me with the 4 inch engine intakes. So you would have to rely on flushing with a freshwater supply that you are 100% confident is greater than the engine's raw water pumps consume, so that you can leave the main engine raw water seacock open (as described above) and then you only need a small (say) 3/4inch BSP electric valve in the freshwater supply. But this means you need a big pump forcing the fresh water into the engines, not a suction pipe from the freshwater tank (because seawater will also be sucked).

    At least that's how I see it - correct me if my logic is mixed up

    I have a pretty big Gianneschi fresh water pump, so I'm now thinking of a pair of small electric valves supplying the fresh water from the boat's domestic water circuit to the strainers with the main sea-cocks left open, with a salinity meter on the dash to tell me I have fresh water pushed down to the bottom of the strainer or down near the sea-cock. That would be a BodgeFlowTM Gold System.
    Last edited by jfm; 19-06-19 at 18:58.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    17,255

    Default Re: Engine cooling thermostat, how does it work

    Quote Originally Posted by jfm View Post
    That would be a BodgeFlowTM Gold System.
    Every time I thought that something discussed here was off the triviality scale, something else followed that raised the bar further.
    Hard to think of an example better than this!

    Guilty as charged for having thrown a rock in the pond, though: I didn't seriously think that Vas would have considered power valves.
    Then again, who am I to put a limit at what he can do with his boat...!?

    PS: no corrections from my part. Your logic is flawless, as far as I can tell.

  7. #57
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Location
    Boat- Western Med
    Posts
    4,988

    Default Re: Engine cooling thermostat, how does it work

    Me again breaking up the party .
    Dam I,am a bit slow out of the blocks trade marking this name Oh hum .

    Take a Gardena hose nozzle and turn it on @ the dock to say wash the boat down .
    What do you see when you twist the tip ?
    Turn it one way and the thing develops a jet , seemingly high pressure 15 ft long great for blasting bird shit etc .Turn it the opposite way and it turns into a spray , the more you turn the finer .
    Agreed ?

    But the pressure ( P ) before the nozzle has not changed , ie in the hose pipe , the water vol coming out to fill a bucket is the same for the jet and spray pattern .
    Buy your bucket fills up the rate which ever way you set it .Vol / min is constant.

    It’s the dia of the hose that sets the base P
    So with the “ bodge “ ( Gardena fittings or similar in the Perspex not JFM ,s ) surely the tiny hole in the nipple is gonna act as a choke .
    This will limit the vol of water .
    Remember it’s the gross vol that’s needed to keep up with the tick over impeller demand not the pressure .
    A tiny way in compared to the seacock pipage surely can’t meet that demand .
    Say going from 3 inch or 2-3/4 to 5/8 th of an inch the nipple will cut the vol down .

    Doing it with the main seacocks open just masks this as the pump does not care where it’s source is .

    Ideally if you are gonna fresh flush ( reasons aside ) you need the same or near as dam it dia inlet pipage .
    As said Gardena from 3 inch or whatever even with a domestic water pump the nipple kills it .

    That why fresh flush is viable in jet skis , Williams , OB ,s etc because the garden hose is near enough the same size or if not the perceived pressure differential is actually enough to do the job .

    The same dock or tap pressure can do a poxy petrol engine NOT 15 or 32 L of diesel
    That’s why it’s not a OEM fitting.Practicalities .

    A salinity meter ( drill another hole guys ) is the way to go in the apparatus you hope to protect .
    But as said by JRudge ) if it “ makes me happy “:

    @ MapisM Have you thought about just adding pencil anodes , more hole drilling ?

    @ JFM perfectly understandable why you arranged professional fabrications at build a few year ago in the pending court case against CAT re failed c32+intercoolers ( a subcontractor btw ) .As it turned out they revised the design of the C32 coolers but with fingers burnt with a huge payout in 2016 when the case concluded and despite using titanium parts they still life them for 7 years . Completely understand your anxiety at the build time over this and the remedial action taken .

    @MapisM I would try and work out as I said above the common denominator and go from there .As I said I feel it’s Zinc related .

    The CAT problem was .
    The intercoolers drained down like I said earlier on and iirc one of the two or even all the Zincs dried out ( think hangering) .They we’re positioned in daft places . Dissimilar metals now without the Zinc reacted and out of sight the seal between the water and air corroded.
    Water found its way eventually into the cylinders .
    Small amount = corrosion of walls and valves , drop off in performance.
    Large amount = hydrolock , bust engine .

    JFM s point about carefully accessing the exhaust water in position re potentially allowing a back flow , is valid for those thinking of joining the club .

    So turn the hose off first .
    I see if the cock is open it sucks a shed load of sea in Hmm defeats the object .
    If the dock pressure is inadequate you run the risk of shortening impeller life .
    If you switch the engines off first AND the dock pressure is as claimed enough to feed 2 3/4 and 3 inch pipes then you run the risk of flooding your turbo .

    I can see why builders have ran a mile fitting OEM gear and letting joe public attempt a dockside water flush .

    If it’s was that good we would all be doing it .
    Last edited by Portofino; 19-06-19 at 21:18.

  8. #58
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Bucks & St Raphael SoF
    Posts
    1,398

    Default Re: Engine cooling thermostat, how does it work

    Quote Originally Posted by MapisM View Post
    I
    Btw, Ferretti used to fit the same strainers that I've got on my boat (made by Guidi, model "Mediterraneo", in nickel-plated bronze).
    If so, I can confirm that the original 8mm thick lid can be replaced with a 10mm one.
    Not because you have to, but just along the lines of better safe than sorry - the cost difference is irrelevant anyway.
    The lid diameter for the 3" strainer is 197mm, but for V8 engines the standard size is 2" 1/2, so maybe that's what you've got, I'm not sure.
    Yep, I certainly have Guidi Mediterraneo and they're 3" (well, they have 3 embossed on the side!)

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Posts
    17,255

    Default Re: Engine cooling thermostat, how does it work

    They are definitely 3", then.
    On top of the dimensions I already mentioned, if you wish to use the same 3/4" thru-hull+valve as I did (Maestrini bronze stuff), the hole is 27mm.

  10. #60
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    Jersey/Antibes
    Posts
    22,432

    Default Re: Engine cooling thermostat, how does it work

    @ porto, #57, that is the worst bit of analysis you've written for a long time. Virtually every bit of your fluids analysis (hosepipe nipples, filling buckets, needing a 3inch pipe not a hosepipe) is just wrong. I don't have time/willpower to explain why - another too long post.
    The Cat risk of failed peripheral component part may be correct. No matter - you just buy new parts when you need them It's only a truck/digger engine, though the c32 is a thing of beauty. (mine = 6 yo now). One of these days, if you can write it succinctly, I'd be interested in what engine you would choose @1400-1600bhp/60 tonne boat. There are iirc only 3 to choose from and it each its downsides (and upsides)
    Last edited by jfm; 19-06-19 at 23:22.

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