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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
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    SW Scotland
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    19,137

    Default Re: Latest Clipper Ventures MAIB report

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Have you ever been on any of the yachts or spoken to any of their trainers?
    Major and persistent leaks, faulty bilge pumps, broken water maker, unserviceable generator, damaged steering - how many did you spot on board? You'll note that in the interests of fairness I have listed only the faults which could have been fixed before they set off and not all the things that went wrong on the trip.
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    748

    Default Re: Latest Clipper Ventures MAIB report

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Have you ever been on any of the yachts or spoken to any of their trainers?

    Do you never fly or drive anywhere after reading accident reports?

    Just askin......
    You're missing the point, which seems to be a lack of attention to some very basic items.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,361

    Default Re: Latest Clipper Ventures MAIB report

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Have you ever been on any of the yachts or spoken to any of their trainers?
    Can I reverse that question and ask, have you? I have been on the boats in question many times. Some of the drills one witnesses on the pontoon/boat-deck are cringe worthy and terrifying in equal measure. To make it worse the crews are hyped-up to the extent of comparing themselves with Hugo Boss and Mr T, also based in the same marina.

    And the skippers speak of the sometimes impossible stress, overworked conditions, and state of under manning, against which they must somehow struggle against dog-tired, hungry, and cold. Clipper only reluctantly agreed to a professional mate when bounced into it by the MAIB. Asking novices to sail at 20kts+ downwind in big seas - latest boats are faster than previous generation - borders on recklessness and some of the accidents have been attributed to just that. By the MAIB that is.

    In this case, not using furling sails is one thing, but not providing the attachment points, hardware and training for secure tethering is....

    ....well any word I can think of is deeply unacceptable on here.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    West London
    Posts
    1,595

    Default Re: Latest Clipper Ventures MAIB report

    Quote Originally Posted by JumbleDuck View Post
    Hmm. I wonder how many crew they would attract is they explicitly offered inadequate tether points, poor tethering procedure and deficient rough weather boat handling procedures.
    Don't be so bloody stupid.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Posts
    1,616

    Default Re: Latest Clipper Ventures MAIB report

    Quote Originally Posted by penberth3 View Post
    You're missing the point, which seems to be a lack of attention to some very basic items.
    +1

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    19,723

    Default Re: Latest Clipper Ventures MAIB report

    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    Can I reverse that question and ask, have you?

    .
    Yes and yes. That's why I view a lot of what's said on these threads as a bunch of old bunny.

    It's supposed to be hard.........

    And yes I do know what it's like to race boats and I do know what it's like to sail across oceans. If anything I have a tinge of regret that I didn't ever combine the two but my over twenty year sailing career took me down other routes.

    Next question?

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Atlantic
    Posts
    19,723

    Default Re: Latest Clipper Ventures MAIB report

    Quote Originally Posted by penberth3 View Post
    You're missing the point, which seems to be a lack of attention to some very basic items.
    Nah. If they had it would have involved dozens of incidents which simply doesn't happen.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,361

    Default Re: Latest Clipper Ventures MAIB report

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Yes and yes. That's why I view a lot of what's said on these threads as a bunch of old bunny.

    It's supposed to be hard.........

    And yes I do know what it's like to race boats and I do know what it's like to sail across oceans. If anything I have a tinge of regret that I didn't ever combine the two but my over twenty year sailing career took me down other routes.

    Next question?
    That's easy, which of the Clipper practices do you find sup par? Any?

    Also tethering, the comments so far have been mostly lifted from the MAIB report, or in ThinWater's case scientific papers. Hardly old bunny

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    19,137

    Default Re: Latest Clipper Ventures MAIB report

    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    Clipper only reluctantly agreed to a professional mate when bounced into it by the MAIB.
    Yes indeed. I found this bit rather telling

    In 2013, an agreement was reached between the MCA and Clipper Ventures stating that during the Race, wherever possible, Clipper Ventures should have suitably qualified persons on board as required by the SCV Code. However, the MCA’s letter to Clipper Ventures also stated:
    ‘The Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) agree that when a vessel owned and operated by Clipper Ventures PLC does not have a second qualified person onboard as required, that a second person must be onboard who has successfully completed the Clipper Coxwain’s Course, in addition to the fully qualified skipper...’
    Since the agreement was made, Clipper Ventures had never employed a second commercially endorsed qualified person during the Race, relying on Clipper coxswains to fulfil this role.

    and this conclusion to it rather unsurprising

    When the Clipper fleet arrived in Fremantle at the end of leg 3, the MCA revoked this agreement.

    Quote Originally Posted by scotty123 View Post
    Don't be so bloody stupid.
    A little robustly phrased, but I gather that you are agreeing with me.

    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    5,361

    Default Re: Latest Clipper Ventures MAIB report

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Nah. If they had it would have involved dozens of incidents which simply doesn't happen.
    Good point, and Clipper have indeed suffered many serious incidents. Alongside a death rate which suggests a systemic problem.

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