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  1. #391
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    Where life is good
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    13,689

    Default Re: The end of owner maintenance ...

    Quote Originally Posted by capnsensible View Post
    Tells me that this whole thread has been pointless and the wrigglers dont like it.

    Keep calm and carry on sailing.
    That being the case, why does it say:-
    “Pleasure Vessel” has the meaning given in the Merchant Shipping (Vessels in Commercial use for Sport or Pleasure) Regulations 1998, as amended1.
    As written this draft very much applies to the likes of thee and me.
    Life is too short to drink bad wine.

  2. #392
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,380

    Default Re: The end of owner maintenance ...

    An example of the competence of the inspectors employed by the MCA to regulate the fishing industry:
    A brand spanking new fishing boat built in Iceland to the latest UK regs is ordered to fit an additional bilge alarm- in a vivier tank!
    This tank is designed to be pumped full of water to keep shellfish alive, but the 'surveyor', with zero experience of the fishing industry, decided it was a 'cargo space'.
    Do you think an army of 'inspectors' recruited to bring yachties into line will be any better?

  3. #393
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    6,854

    Default Re: The end of owner maintenance ...

    According to this draft, a boat owner wishing to change the boat's propeller will need to engage the services of some sort of "professional". Who do I get to change or reef my sails? After all they are my boat's propellers.

  4. #394
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
    Posts
    200

    Default Re: The end of owner maintenance ...

    The MCA are busy emailing people who have responded to the "consultation" saying that it doesn't apply to pleasure boats.

    Of course this is meaningless unless the actual text of the proposed guidance is altered.

    I suspect this is all a window dressing exercise and the regulations will come into force in August.

    I have no experience challenging a government agency but surely, collectively, we need to up the ante.

    Would forum members consider taking legal advice or perhaps teaming up with the RYA to challenge the proposals?

  5. #395
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    362

    Default Re: The end of owner maintenance ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hot Property View Post
    The MCA are busy emailing people who have responded to the "consultation" saying that it doesn't apply to pleasure boats.

    Of course this is meaningless unless the actual text of the proposed guidance is altered.

    I suspect this is all a window dressing exercise and the regulations will come into force in August.

    I have no experience challenging a government agency but surely, collectively, we need to up the ante.

    Would forum members consider taking legal advice or perhaps teaming up with the RYA to challenge the proposals?
    The RYA have a page on this, the link is:-
    https://www.rya.org.uk/knowledge-adv...fetyatsea.aspx

    The RYA is encouraging people to respond to the consultation.

    The reply I received from the MCA indicated that they are intending to "tone down" section 2.5 in response to comments they have received; so keep sending in those comments!

  6. #396
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: The end of owner maintenance ...

    More ammo

    Looking through the MAIB reports to try and find evidence this MGN is actually needed..
    So far I have found just one report of an accident that was "caused" by any of the principles outlined in the MGN..
    The case concerns a speedboat where the yard fitted a new propellor... Exactly the sort of thing the MGN is supposed to address?
    Not so.. turns out they were testing the effect of the new prop on performance and simply overcooked the tests resulting in a capsize.

    The contractor, who was wearing a connected engine kill cord, carried out several straight runs and two wide turns. In preparing for the third turn, he reduced speed and trimmed the engine in. He then executed an “aggressive” turn to starboard, during which the boat rolled and capsized to port.
    So a professional commercial contractor ... Yet somehow the MCA seems to conflate a contractor with a leisure boat owner.
    Life is too short to drink bad wine.

  7. #397
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    Where life is good
    Posts
    13,689

    Default Re: The end of owner maintenance ...

    Following the above ..

    I can't find any MAIB reports that highlight the subject of this MGN consultation as the cause of any accidents.

    https://www.gov.uk/maib-reports?date...al-craft-power

    That's 120 reports over the past ten years
    Life is too short to drink bad wine.

  8. #398
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    755

    Default Re: The end of owner maintenance ...

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthUp View Post
    An example of the competence of the inspectors employed by the MCA to regulate the fishing industry:
    A brand spanking new fishing boat built in Iceland to the latest UK regs is ordered to fit an additional bilge alarm- in a vivier tank!
    This tank is designed to be pumped full of water to keep shellfish alive, but the 'surveyor', with zero experience of the fishing industry, decided it was a 'cargo space'...
    So you don't think it's important to know the water level in a vivier tank?

  9. #399
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    755

    Default Re: The end of owner maintenance ...

    Quote Originally Posted by rszemeti View Post
    Which bit of 'they are not prepared to put that simple fact in the "guidance notes" ' are you having trouble comprehending?
    The status is clearly explained in the pre-amble to any Guidance Notes I've ever seen.

  10. #400
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Far S. Cornwall
    Posts
    13,119

    Default Re: The end of owner maintenance ...

    Quote Originally Posted by penberth3 View Post
    So you don't think it's important to know the water level in a vivier tank?
    It would only sound if water was present, which it would be all the time and I imagine the endless beep would be disabled. A viv tank usually has a hatch in the deck big enough to enter and haul the catch out, if the bilge water is visible from on deck that's one case where a bilge alarm is not needed, see the MSN. Exactly the sort of thing we are used to. Brand new boat, half the transom cut out for pots to shoot away, must also have scuppers in the remainder of the transom = to x % of bulwark surface area, because the book says they must be there and doesn't account for other structure or lack of. Quote "you have accomodation: either remove the mattresses or install a toilet".

    In fairness an alarm might be useful to know if the viv tank level was increasing, but since it is the same as WL outside, and discrete from the rest of the bilge, and safe even if full to the deck, in fact safer due to lack of free surface water.......still rubbish really.
    Last edited by fisherman; 12-07-19 at 12:03.

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