Page 7 of 53 FirstFirst ... 2345678910111217 ... LastLast
Results 61 to 70 of 523
  1. #61
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    36,776

    Default Re: MCA consultation - in the wake of Cheeki Rafiki

    I think Flaming has got to the point that the other thread has largely missed.
    All this is brought about by high profile cases in 'the Sailing Industry' where commercial operators are having accidents, some fatal, and the MCA et al are not getting the convictions they aim for under existing rules.

  2. #62
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Returned to South Coast from West Coast of Scotland.
    Posts
    1,763

    Default Re: MCA consultation - in the wake of Cheeki Rafiki

    Am I the only one left in Britain who thinks the MCA should keep their rules for Commercial operators and leave the Pleasure side to continue as they have for many years without intervention? Once a freedom is lost it seems to be lost forever.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    36,776

    Default Re: MCA consultation - in the wake of Cheeki Rafiki

    Quote Originally Posted by mainsail1 View Post
    Am I the only one left in Britain who thinks the MCA should keep their rules for Commercial operators and leave the Pleasure side to continue as they have for many years without intervention? Once a freedom is lost it seems to be lost forever.
    The problem is, we have a big pay'n'play/training industry blurring the distinction.
    And yachts have a complex legal status as ships.

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    scotland
    Posts
    3,345

    Default Re: MCA consultation - in the wake of Cheeki Rafiki

    A
    Quote Originally Posted by flaming View Post
    https://www.gov.uk/government/consul...-safety-at-sea

    For anyone intesrested the MCA are now consulting on best practices in the areas of maintenace, groundings, liferaft stowage, preperations for ocean passages, rigging inspection and emergency equipment and use.

    YM article here.

    https://www.yachtingmonthly.com/news...kI_He1WIfmmRO0
    From no convictions on QR to jail for changing the prop on your RIB is a way over the top

    3.5 Modifications to the structure, machinery, loading and trim, or propulsion system can have a substantial effect on the handling, performance, stability or structural integrity of a vessel. Examples of modifications and unintended outcomes are shown below but are not exhaustive;
    3.5.1 Upgrading an engine on a RIB to a larger horsepower/engine or changing the propeller size/pitch will normally increase the speed of the vessel or thrust capability but could also affect the trim of the vessel and it may not turn or corner as the designer intended.
    3.5.2 Adding a radar to the mast and changing to a larger furled headsail on a sailing vessel will have a negative effect on the stability of the vessel as the increased weight aloft will reduce the righting moment.
    3.5.3 Adding a tender to the fly bridge of a motor vessel along with adding an extendable launching davit will raise the centre of gravity of the vessel and when launching the tender, will have a negative effect on the vessel stability.
    3.5.4 If replacing an internal engine, that the new engine uses the same engine support mounts and through hull fittings for any piping. If incorrectly fitted/mounted, this could have a negative effect on the structural integrity of the vessel as well as the effective running of the engine.
    It is an obvious ploy that if you put forward ridiculous proposals then reduce to less draconian you a still get a lot of petty rules established which can become basis for regulatory costs especially when it becomes an insurance minimum requirement

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    River Itchen, Southampton
    Posts
    6,901

    Default Re: MGM. Safety at Sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllanG View Post
    This is already being discussed on here:-

    http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread...er-maintenance
    too much waffle there. It's like reading about salt in crevices......

    I do wonder what problem they are trying to fix. They specifically mention yacht grounding - I suspect its fallout from Cheeki Rafiki. Which you could argue was covered by legislation anyway.

    Got to hope the RYA fights our corner on this one. I for one couldn't afford to have my boat exclusively, professionally maintained. And fettling is a good part of my hobby,

  6. #66
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    3,273

    Default Re: MGM. Safety at Sea.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar View Post
    And fettling is a good part of my hobby,
    I'd go beyond that. Fettling, self servicing, and owner maintenance is vitally important to allow owners to diagnose and fix things out on the water. This legislation, if it becomes that, could have the opposite effect in the long run, with owners having no idea how to get out of a simple jam such as a shredded impeller, or a belt that has shed. I have broken down, or suffered some form of mechanical failure more times that I can remember, but fingers crossed and touch wood, I have always got myself out of the situation without external help using my spares, my tool kit and my mechanical knowledge.
    If found in the Brexit forum, please return to the real world.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Posts
    162

    Default Re: The end of owner maintenance ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream believer View Post
    You are all up in arms about this proposal but i have just read the second document - maintenance etc-
    can anyone tell me what is so wrong with that?
    I have several parts that give me the willies, but I will reference just this one:
    "Any damage to a vessel, regardless of the scale or location of that damage, should be fixed promptly, ideally before the next passage"
    Read this in the context that each word included in a document is included for a reason and carries equal weight."

    "…regardless of scale or location..."


    This leaves no room - if you do not fix all damage, regardless of scale or location, then you are not complying with the guidelines. So that's any damage, anywhere, however small.

    Now you can say "don't be silly, they don't mean that". But I can't see any other reason why you would so explicitly go to the trouble of including those words "regardless of scale or location" unless you intended them to be there, and that is certainly how a court or insurer would be entitled to read this document.


    So to answer your question, there is one example amongst several of what I believe is wrong with this proposal. I'd add to that that I am have never commercially worked on engines, or gone on a diesel course. I read this document to mean that I should no longer service my engine. It makes no distinction on its guidelines between personal boats, and chartered boats with paying passengers.


    Me no likey.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
    Posts
    1,236

    Default Re: The end of owner maintenance ...

    OK. I’d like to summarise what I’ve read so far on these draft documents as such:

    1 You won’t be able to work on your boat’s rig at all – you MUST pay a marine professional to do it.
    2 Had your engine changed for a nice new Beta? If you chose it and you aren’t a qualified professional designer, you could be liable for a fine or prison sentence.
    3 Do you rig your 1972 wooden boat in accordance with the manufacturer’s operation and maintenance manual? No? Then you have departed from the regulations.
    4 Have you bought and fitted a lovely Flexofold folding propeller to your boat? You’ve changed the machinery and you could be liable for a fine or prison sentence.
    5 Sailing a boat with a radar reflector and/or radar up the mast? You do have permission from your boat’s manufacturer and/or designer showing that the change in the centre of gravity of your boat is still OK/safe, don’t you?
    6 Did you fix your genoa furling yourself when it broke? You aren’t authorised to do so. You could be liable for a fine or prison sentence.

    This is the stupidity that is contained within these documents.

    PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE review them and respond to the MCA’s email address with something professional and critical of these proposals. Formally object to them.

    Ask them to confirm that they have received your email and to keep you informed of the progress of these proposals.
    This is the real thing. Don’t think there’s plenty of time because this is it.

    Review them and object for the sake of your pocket, your safety and sanity.

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Celtic Fringe
    Posts
    14,017

    Default Re: MCA consultation - in the wake of Cheeki Rafiki

    Quote Originally Posted by mainsail1 View Post
    Am I the only one left in Britain who thinks the MCA should keep their rules for Commercial operators and leave the Pleasure side to continue as they have for many years without intervention? Once a freedom is lost it seems to be lost forever.
    Define pleasure? Clipper, is that pleasure or commercial?
    Cynical Scottish almost retired engineer.
    Gib'Sea 96 owner

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
    Posts
    9,103

    Default Re: The end of owner maintenance ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham376 View Post
    When I started my apprenticeship in the motor trade in the '60s, the only health advice I received was to clean the spoon in the foreman's tea. Joking apart, we had no formal H & S training whatsoever, learning was on the job.
    Do you think that was a good or a bad thing?
    personally, (having been brought up in the building trade and worked on site from the age of 12 years)i have seen some pretty bad accidents -- so i think is a bad thing- looking back i sometimes think that those supposed to do the "training" ie the craftsmen around the apprentices, were as dangerous, in many cases, as the youngsters they were supposed to be looking after.
    practices then led to men with severe injuries in their early 40's due to shear ignorance not only by them but by their employers ( i say that even though my father employed many hundreds)
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

Page 7 of 53 FirstFirst ... 2345678910111217 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Latest YBW News

Find Boats For Sale

to
to