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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Loch Snizort, Isle of Skye
    Posts
    4,880

    Default Too hot to paint?

    Yesterday I got my first coat of Toplac on the hull. I tried not to skimp on the prep anywhere- dings filled with watertite, all over flattened down with 240 paper, washed down with fresh water, wiped clean with tack rags, then a coat of pre-kote, followed by a 50:50 coat, which was then flattened back once more and the whole surface again washed and wiped down.
    I started off trying with a decent quality brush, using the Toplac with a glug of Owatrol in it. Didn't get very far with this- it was stupidly hot yesterday, around 30C, and things were just gumming up. That section now has curtains in it where the paint went on too thick and sagged. I switched to a foam roller, using the brush only to cut in at the toe-rail. This was much better, and much faster as well. However there are noticeable lines where the sections join- I presume the paint was just drying so fast that I was struggling to keep a wet edge.
    I think the best finish was achieved after I added a bit of thinners, but the downside here is that the single coat is too thin in a few places and the lighter undercoat is showing through. So you can't have everything! I also see a few orange-peel areas where I think I over-rolled it, in an effort to keep the finish as thin as possible.

    It doesn't help that I'm using Oxford blue, which is very dark.

    Dilemma now is... do I try and get a better finished, but waiting for this coat to cure and flatting it back... or do I accept that this is as good as it gets, and stick another coat on top? Is it too much to hope that a second coat might hide the orange peel and curtains in the first coat?
    Moody 39- Deb 33- Wayfarer- Wanderer

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Second Coast, Ross-shire, overlooking Gruinard Bay.
    Posts
    7,220

    Default Re: Too hot to paint?

    For what it's worth, I had similar problems in 2016-17.
    The heat wasn't culprit, rather the cold.
    (dark blue)

    I spent a whole season rubbing down, filing etc etc etc only to be screwed when the second top-coat went on. First top-coat fantastic, but curtains and peel on second.

    I rubbed right down to the third undercoat and started again with top-coat. Almost perfect, so left it for two days.
    A light sanding for a key, tack-rag, wash-off and left to warm up in the sunshine..
    Third and final? topcoat looked spectacular, but overnight it had been cold even though the temperature and humidity by 11:00 was spot on when we started painting (two of us now, me rolling-on, other guy, a professional, tipping-off).
    Went to check last thing at night and shocked to see bands of white "haze" where the lateral ribs are.
    The cold had been in them all day and came out through the hull in the evening.
    By now it was Autumn, so we left it til the following Spring. So much time and expense to date so when the next top-coat went on ok-but-not-perfect we agreed it would suffice.
    Last edited by Robert Wilson; 29-06-19 at 22:05.
    Kay Sarah Sarah
    57°51.42' N 5°29.44' W

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Northumberland
    Posts
    3,915

    Default Re: Too hot to paint?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kelpie View Post
    Yesterday I got my first coat of Toplac on the hull. I tried not to skimp on the prep anywhere- dings filled with watertite, all over flattened down with 240 paper, washed down with fresh water, wiped clean with tack rags, then a coat of pre-kote, followed by a 50:50 coat, which was then flattened back once more and the whole surface again washed and wiped down.
    I started off trying with a decent quality brush, using the Toplac with a glug of Owatrol in it. Didn't get very far with this- it was stupidly hot yesterday, around 30C, and things were just gumming up. That section now has curtains in it where the paint went on too thick and sagged. I switched to a foam roller, using the brush only to cut in at the toe-rail. This was much better, and much faster as well. However there are noticeable lines where the sections join- I presume the paint was just drying so fast that I was struggling to keep a wet edge.
    I think the best finish was achieved after I added a bit of thinners, but the downside here is that the single coat is too thin in a few places and the lighter undercoat is showing through. So you can't have everything! I also see a few orange-peel areas where I think I over-rolled it, in an effort to keep the finish as thin as possible.

    It doesn't help that I'm using Oxford blue, which is very dark.

    Dilemma now is... do I try and get a better finished, but waiting for this coat to cure and flatting it back... or do I accept that this is as good as it gets, and stick another coat on top? Is it too much to hope that a second coat might hide the orange peel and curtains in the first coat?
    A second coat won't hide high spots left from the first coat. Sanding with 300 grit until your flat surface returns will form a sound starting point for a flat finish.

    A foam roller will produce a good finish after tipping off. A good quality foam brush is easier than a bristle brush with no bristles to give trouble.

    Conditions will dictate how much thinner to add to the paint in the roller tray and it can be helpful to have a separate pot of paint for the tipping brush as the thinner can be adjusted for tipping. Conditions change as you move around the job and the sun does the same.

    This guy has produced a good video.


    He does have the advantage of working indoors but produces a good finish.
    Last edited by 2Tizwoz; 29-06-19 at 22:29.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Second Coast, Ross-shire, overlooking Gruinard Bay.
    Posts
    7,220

    Default Re: Too hot to paint?

    Apart from him being inside (in a temperature/wind/humidity stable environment) that's just about what I did. But with less than perfect results - good enough, but not perfect.

    So is it the environment that is crucial, the skill/lightness of the tipping off or just plain luck?
    Kay Sarah Sarah
    57°51.42' N 5°29.44' W

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Northumberland
    Posts
    3,915

    Default Re: Too hot to paint?

    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Wilson View Post
    Apart from him being inside (in a temperature/wind/humidity stable environment) that's just about what I did. But with less than perfect results - good enough, but not perfect.

    So is it the environment that is crucial, the skill/lightness of the tipping off or just plain luck?
    A skilled coach painter would no doubt reliably produce first class results every time so we must dismiss luck, but we amateurs don't really get much practice.

    Despite using tack rags to remove dust, working outside means we're susceptible to the weather and that includes what wind there is. I understand you may have a few midges up there? Humidity temperature and solar radiation all affect drying time so achieving perfection is difficult. After a couple of weeks to harden polishing can improve things further.

    Giving the tipping brush paint extra thinners can make it possible to achieve a perfect finish. Cars provide such a ubiquitous example of excellent paintwork we are driven to expect the same on our boats but achieving that standard outdoors requires a lot of care and patience.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Loch Snizort, Isle of Skye
    Posts
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    Default Re: Too hot to paint?

    Well that's the weather well and truly broken now so next stage in painting will have to wait a while.
    I know that the correct thing to do is to flatten back the first coat of Toplac and go again, but I'm not confident that I can do any better a job second time around. Hopefully it won't be 30 degrees next time.
    Moody 39- Deb 33- Wayfarer- Wanderer

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Colwell Bay
    Posts
    5,635

    Default Re: Too hot to paint?

    I've been painting my own wooden boats 20 years, Yes, I reckon 30 degrees was too hot, esp with a dark colour, unless there was no dew and you did it very early.

    I'd wet flat it with 400 grit.

    Clean down and mask up.

    I would use a good brush, like a Hamilton Perfection natural bristle, but I would have given the brush a good breaking in on the undercoats, so perhaps use a Hamilton Perfection synthetic if a new brush now. 2.5", or maybe 3" if your fit and can work hard.

    I'm told lots of painters now use the Purdy synthetic brushes, but I know where I am with a Hamilton.

    I would not roller on, not would I lay off with a foam brush.

    Top to bottom, work hard and fast.

    Good luck.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    167

    Default Re: Too hot to paint?

    As i am in the procces of painting my boat , i am now borrowing a professional air-less spray gun to get the job done properly.
    I tried roll and tip single, but the paint was drying too fast. I tried only with a brush bt again had the same problem. I then tried with an electric Einhel cheap spray gun and the results were much much better than brush. I made 3 passes over the same spot and the paint was spreading giving that glassy look. I had some orange look at some spots because i made the extra pass after the first pass paint had cured slightly.
    A rule of thumb is that what ever the surface underneath, the next coat will magnifie the problem not hide it. So if you have orange look on 1st coat, the 2nd will be much worse.
    You have to sand it really good and then try with more thinner that will give you time to work with the brush. I got the best result with setting the paint with horizintal brush strokes, and then tipping lightly vertically. Good for wooden boat, but after trying it i think a fiberglass boat needs that good spray gun...
    Last edited by Akestor; 30-06-19 at 20:32.
    Do it yourself and do it good!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Loch Snizort, Isle of Skye
    Posts
    4,880

    Default Re: Too hot to paint?

    Update:
    with more than a week having passed, we had no choice but to sand back the first coat of Toplac in order to key it. So this also meant we had the chance to remove the worst of the orange-peel and the runs and join marks.
    It was a more suitable day today, temperatures in the teens, and I enlisted SWMBO to help as well. I rollered, she tipped off. Spent a little under two hours covering one side of a 33ft boat.
    It's not a perfect finish, and there are some brush marks and the odd midgie stuck to it, but it's consistent and from a few feet away looks really good. Very shiny.
    So glad that the extra work flattening back the first coat has turned out to be worth it. It took longer than applying the new coat of paint.

    Just need a couple of good days to do the other side... which is the one without any shade, which could be a problem...
    Moody 39- Deb 33- Wayfarer- Wanderer

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