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  1. #71
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
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    19,379

    Default Re: Veteran coastguards sacked for rescuing car from cliff edge

    Quote Originally Posted by photodog View Post
    So which tribunal is that then if one doesn’t have a legal contract of employment?
    I assume that you're being deliberately dim? If one is a worker or an employee then, by definition, one has an employment contract, verbal or otherwise, sufficient to enable one to claim employment rights which are legally enforceable at an Employment Tribunal.

    This is kindergarten stuff.

    Richard

  2. #72
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Me Edinburgh, boat JWD
    Posts
    5,090

    Default Re: Veteran coastguards sacked for rescuing car from cliff edge

    Again from decades ago, consideration is not a requirement for a contract in some parts of the UK. Not a factor in this case but a point worth remembering.

  3. #73
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    12,152

    Default Re: Veteran coastguards sacked for rescuing car from cliff edge

    Quote Originally Posted by photodog View Post
    If your not paid, your not an employee. .....
    Wrong again I'm afraid

    I have a nasty feeling that we've gone round the circle and ended up back where we began!

    There is case law and legal opinion aplenty to the effect that if you have the obligations of an employee, regardless of whether you are paid or not, you have the rights of an employee and in fact and in law your ARE an employee

  4. #74
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    SW Scotland
    Posts
    19,365

    Default Re: Veteran coastguards sacked for rescuing car from cliff edge

    Quote Originally Posted by Bru View Post
    Their time, from the point of view of the organisation. Volunteer time has a quantifiable financial value and is therefore a consideration
    Wouldn't the volunteers' time - like my time as an employee - be the service for which the consideration is exchanged?
    "Seamen are always wanting to do things the proper way; and I like to do them my way."

  5. #75
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    South Coast
    Posts
    13,812

    Default Re: Veteran coastguards sacked for rescuing car from cliff edge

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    I would have thought that the difference between being on a "shout" and then being "stood down" was so clearly different to "freedom to determine when they undertake which tasks are part if their employment" that it would not need me to explain it.

    As for "pissing off to the pub for a couple of bevvies", have you ever worked in an organisation?

    Richard
    You stand down from a state of readiness or duty. If a serviceman is told to stand down it means stop carrying out that activity or (more correctly) return to a lower state of readiness. Same for fire crews, etc. - if you tell them to stand down it means they are not required or wanted for that particular duty, not that they are off work. It doesn't mean you can do what you want and, in fact it, means the opposite in the cases above - it's not a suggestion, it's an order. You don't just carry on an do it. I'm guessing you've never worked in an organisation that actually has proper discipline given your comments.

  6. #76
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
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    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
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    19,379

    Default Re: Veteran coastguards sacked for rescuing car from cliff edge

    Quote Originally Posted by grumpy_o_g View Post
    You stand down from a state of readiness or duty. If a serviceman is told to stand down it means stop carrying out that activity or (more correctly) return to a lower state of readiness. Same for fire crews, etc. - if you tell them to stand down it means they are not required or wanted for that particular duty, not that they are off work. It doesn't mean you can do what you want and, in fact it, means the opposite in the cases above - it's not a suggestion, it's an order. You don't just carry on an do it. I'm guessing you've never worked in an organisation that actually has proper discipline given your comments.
    And I'm guessing that you've never worked in an organisation that actually requires you to read things properly, given your comments.

    Richard

  7. #77
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Emsworth Hants
    Posts
    12,456

    Default Re: Veteran coastguards sacked for rescuing car from cliff edge

    Sacking people who help someone is utter madness who whoever made the decision should be sacked.

  8. #78
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    143

    Default Re: Veteran coastguards sacked for rescuing car from cliff edge

    Always very sad to read stories like these, I remember in the Clyde a few years ago an off duty fire fighter got sacked for rescuing a person from the water. Lions lead by donkeys indeed, are we now a country lead only by smooth talking arse covering imbeciles, across all fields? Independent fire stations, lifeboats being withdrawn, it seems trust is missing across the levels? What went wrong? Helpful Coartguards, brave fire fighters, skilful lifeboatmen, we salute you, and feel your pain.

    I like the upside down organisational chart, you have the operators at the top, they are the ones that fix the cars, drive the trains, clean and fix the infrastructure. Then you have a smaller number of support staff, there to assist them make their work smooth and productive, and below them a smaller number to facilitate. The 'Managers' job is to have faith in the training, skills and judgement of the operator, and assist them with any impediment that pops up.

  9. #79
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    SPAIN,Galicia
    Posts
    12,524

    Default Re: Veteran coastguards sacked for rescuing car from cliff edge

    At the rate the so called management are going there will be one coast guard and ten managers!

  10. #80
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Posts
    755

    Default Re: Veteran coastguards sacked for rescuing car from cliff edge

    Quote Originally Posted by Quiddle View Post
    ...I remember the shocking case of 2 PCSOs in Manchester who refused to attempt to rescue a drowning child from a frozen lake. Having worked alongside members of all emergency services I could mot believe that they had taken this decision...
    Unfortunately, you've remembered the tabloid newspaper version.

    They did not stand and watch a person drown. The person had already drowned and was out of sight under the water in an urban pond full of junk. They took the right decision not to risk their lives to recover a body, location unknown, from a frozen lake.

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