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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
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    Med
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    6,203

    Default Anchor thread with a lesson

    There not been an anchoring thread for a while , maybe after so many we all leaned how to anchor .
    Here an interest lesson, I'm not sure how many time people have try to convince me that there no need to rev on a anchor , the weight and the chain with a little bit of wind will do the job and as long as the chain it bar tight there no way your going to drag , I sure some have said it here too.
    I alway given up on the argument because there no winners with some people who think the know it all.
    Yesterday we arrived in Villefrancehe after a wild sail through thunderstorms with winds the topped 41 kts , in the bay the wind had drop quite a lot we anchored in 16 mts as a temporary stop the get ourself sorted and give the wind time to stop . Not planning to stay and being tied , we set the anchor at 1600 rpm , this is much lower then we normally do we would let it sit on 2000/2200rpm for a few second before calling it a day , but the chain was tight and we wasn't moving , the wind picked up again and drop and kept doing this , around 18 to 20 kts , although we didn't Seen to be dragging , I just got this feeling we was , took a sight and when check again we some time later we had move very slightly .
    We decided as we had a rest we move to a better spot , for over half an hour we tried to haul up the anchor tripping the breaker time and time , until in the end up came our anchor with an old spider anchor attached, a good two and half metes long with only one spike left .
    Just goes to show with a combine weight of our 25 kg anchor 65 mts of 10mm chain which weight around 160 kg plus god knows what the old anchor weight a lot more then our anchor and chain put to gather , force five wind is stronger then reverse back at 1600rpm with a bladed prop .
    If a hadn't notice the little movement and stayed for the night the next thunderstorm would had us on the shore .
    has getting the anchor and untangle it in little wind was one thing doing it in a blow would had been impossible a meant cutting the anchor free .
    Lesson here If a yacht engine pull your anchor out , you have no chance in a blow .
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  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    6,917

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Sorry, but if you were dragging in 18 - 20 knots of wind, there's something wrong with your gear or method.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    West Coast
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    2,403

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanS View Post
    Sorry, but if you were dragging in 18 - 20 knots of wind, there's something wrong with your gear or method.
    Troll... or should I say Trawl....

    Just goes to show that experience and gut instinct count for a lot.

    Interesting read, thanks.
    Chris
    Out west.... (or in the office)

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanS View Post
    Sorry, but if you were dragging in 18 - 20 knots of wind, there's something wrong with your gear or method.
    Nothing wrong with gear , we just wasn't anchored full stop , but being help by this lump of old steel.
    But thanks for your comment any way .
    you missed the point of the posting ,or maybe the way I explained it .
    which was that people who think their anchor is set because the chain looks tight as the wind blows the boat back or once that are afraid to put on the REV to set anchor in case there engine pulls the anchor back out are very must mistaken and when the wind start to blow don't be surprise when you drag .
    Warning forumite dyslexia near by
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
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    plymouth
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by sailaboutvic View Post
    Nothing wrong with gear , we just wasn't anchored full stop , but being help by this lump of old steel.
    But thanks for your comment any way .
    you missed the point of the posting ,or maybe the way I explained it .
    which was that people who think their anchor is set because the chain looks tight as the wind blows the boat back or once that are afraid to put on the REV to set anchor in case there engine pulls the anchor back out are very must mistaken and when the wind start to blow don't be surprise when you drag .
    didn't take long for the experts to start telling you what you did wrong did it?

    well, you asked for it, there is nothing more volatile than an anchor thread in these waters.

    it seems to me that the fisher folk use their anchors more than raggies and where i am in portugal. they all use strange wire ones that look like an upturned chandelier with the ends cut off. none of the yachties have them.

    i had engine failure up the guardiana river and threw out my swivel headed plough thingy. there was a pretty severe blow and the tide was running and needless to say the anchor dragged through the mud.

    i threw out the kedge, a small danforth and that grabbed like hell.

    the moral of the story is that there is no correct anchor, you need different types and hope you hit a rock. loosing it is the least of your worries. most importantly, look to see what the locals are using.
    Last edited by viago; 10-07-19 at 08:49.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
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    Sydney, Australia.
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    5,477

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by viago View Post

    i had engine failure up the guardiana river and threw out my swivel headed plough thingy. there was a pretty severe blow and the tide was running and needless to say the anchor dragged through the mud.

    i threw out the kedge, a small danforth and that grabbed like hell.




    the moral of the story is that there is no correct anchor, you need different types and hope you hit a rock. loosing it is the least of your worries. most importantly, look to see what the locals are using.
    +1 though I'd like to know why the local use inverted chandeliers - here they are used as they catch in coral (but they do remove the light bulb and crystal before use )

    Jonathan
    Last edited by Neeves; 10-07-19 at 08:51.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeves View Post
    +1 though I'd like to know why the local use inverted chandeliers - here they are used as they catch in coral

    Jonathan
    presumably because they work. no idea why, they look useless to me.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    Greenwich
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    7,575

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    They look super cheap to make so that my be part of their attraction

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3,340

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Thanks for the report.

    As you mention, 1600 rpm for a sailboat does not produce a lot of setting force, although this force from the engine is combined with the force from the wind (in this case 18-20 knots) and the boats momentum (if any).

    One of the main advantages of using a high setting force is that it provides a test that the anchor is working. Unfortunately, even remote anchorages can have man made debris on the bottom, such as old towels, that will prevent even the best anchor setting properly. There is also a risk of isolated natural hazards, such a rock outcrop, that can prevent the anchor working correctly.

    For most sailboats full reverse held for thirty seconds will set the anchor to about the same level as around thirty knots of wind. So the test is not perfect, but it is at least provides some confirmation that things are working as they should, and the substrate where the anchor has been dropped is reasonable.

    From the report my interpretation is that it is likely that the debris interfered with the anchors setting. A higher setting force may have revealed the problem. An alternative explanation is that the anchor dragged and then picked up the debris. Modern anchors set remarkably quickly.

    A dragging anchor can cover a lot of ground, and will frequently collect debris as it slides along the bottom. Therefore it is often difficult to know if the anchor dragged because it was fouled by the debris, or debris was picked up because the anchor dragged.

    Anyway thanks for the report.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Morning Jonathan.
    Just having my first coffee , not quite up to it yet , been a rocky night people coming and going .
    Just to refresh are seen people willing to help
    Anchor 25 kg
    Chain 10mm X 85 mts
    Windlass lofran 1000 w @12v
    Working load 1250 kg
    Working load amps 150A
    Lofran spec ....
    I fitted the windlass around two years ago , using the solenoid that came with it , but I used the breaker of 80A that was on the boat . That breaker worked find with the old 1000w windlass although that was on a 8 mm chain .
    Almost from new we started to have the problem , can't remember now but I think we was on a quay and I just tighten the chain a bit when it tripped .
    From then on just taken up the slack and anchor would make it trip .( not every time)

    Has I said after trying everything I could I got the first guy out he finding was the v+ was the problem , cut a long story short test by two different auto starter repair shop , I was told nothing was wrong ,I just replaced the same cable .

    Over months that follow by two other guy the first suggested a bigger breaker , so the 80A replace 100A , that improved the problem 10 fold in the sence it only tripped now and then ,
    In between the second guy the motor was taken of for testing that was found to be fine .

    We was on a quay med moored when The second guy came out , sod law , we operated the windlass until the ropes where about to snap , did t trip , have to agree with him , it was working ok , he also did a drop test and couldn't find any thing , size of cables was good again suggested bigger breaker if the problem continue.

    Must be a year later I once again had the motor tested .
    I also if you read back did my own test to isolate the cable by taken the power off the bow thruster .

    Three weeks ago the solenoid play up on the up , strip it out to find the point ,or contact what every you like to call them was badly burned nearly to the lever did a temp repair to get me out of trouble by putting I little bit of copper in there until I found a lofran replacement .

    We very good on how we use it , it's very unusual to haul up with any weight,
    at time in a very big blow when the wind blow the bow off maybe then a bit as we motor back on the chain ,
    so I wouldn't say it's been miss used .

    No I haven't opened up the windlass .
    Just using the handle seen to work easily enough , although the other day we had to put a metre pole on the handle to haul , stuff us liveaboard carry , who else carry a lump of scaffolding pole on board

    Off for my next coffee and a long dinghy ride to the town for fresh bread ,
    Then maybe do more test .
    Thanks for your suggestion.
    Last edited by sailaboutvic; 12-07-19 at 07:01.
    Warning forumite dyslexia near by
    www.bluewatersailorcroatia.webs.com

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