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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Isle of Lewis
    Posts
    524

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Iíve seen those wire anchors on the east and west coast of the UK too. The idea is that they are cheap and will bend if the get lodged in a wreck or rocks so you can get it back. Used by fishermen and anglers but certainly not designed to give a goods night sleep.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    6,854

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by sailaboutvic View Post
    I can only guess what happen here , the time taken for the chain got taut once the slack was taken up, experience tells me was about right I think we was very unlucky to have drop the anchor just before the old lump .
    Being knacked and only plain to stay a while plus the combination the way the chain straight out I didn't bother put any more rev on although we did sit there for about 10 second with power on .
    Bring it down to laziness and triedness , I should had know better only my self to blame .
    When we did anchor the wind was off and on but much lighter although there no doubt it was going pick up and down.

    16 mts of depth I couldn't see what was the cause and I not that good a diver to go down anywhere that far , I could had got out my power dive which would had got me down 10 mts but with us now dragging slowly and boat around it wasn't a option .
    My first thought was the chain was wrap around a rock but then I remember we not been swinging .
    By adding on the extra rpm we was able to drag it in shallow water which mean more of the chain was free to come up . Which bring me to the whole point ,
    if we set it at are normally rpm 2000/2200 straight away we would had notice are anchor wasn't set .

    I agree that posting anything on these forum bring out the once who's not interest in what's being posted but just want to made an Argument and try and be little others ,
    but I willing to take the flack in hope that someone will learn some thing out of my experience and maybe stop them losing there boat.
    Right, you were in 16m. How much chain did you put out? I'm not trying to start an argument, but I am trying to understand how you dragged in so little wind. If you can't respond without being unpleasant, then don't bother to answer the question.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    3,272

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Here is another example. This convex plough anchor has been dropped with only a token amount of setting force, as shown by the shallow and short scrape mark.

    Convex plough anchors take a long distance to set, so need a long setting force before they start to dig in. This cruising boat spent overnight like this. Fortunately the wind was light.

    If the wind did pick up would the anchor have set, or would the old tyre in the left hand side of the photo have interfered with the performance? The skipper also managed to pick a weedy patch in an anchorage with plenty of sand areas. The weed is only light, but convex plough anchors are not great in weed. Would this have interfered with the anchors setting?

    Of course I don’t know the answers to these questions, but worryingly nor does the skipper.

    Hopefully, Sailaboutvic’s strory will encourage more people to set their anchor properly. I don’t want to suggest that setting the anchor is absolutely essential. In most cases if the wind picks up the anchor will set nicely on its own, but deliberate setting and therefore testing of the anchor does reduce the chance of surprises, and I dont mean nice surprises.

    Last edited by noelex; 10-07-19 at 10:40.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    83

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanS View Post
    Right, you were in 16m. How much chain did you put out? I'm not trying to start an argument, but I am trying to understand how you dragged in so little wind. If you can't respond without being unpleasant, then don't bother to answer the question.
    See #1

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Greenwich
    Posts
    7,319

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanS View Post
    Right, you were in 16m. How much chain did you put out? I'm not trying to start an argument, but I am trying to understand how you dragged in so little wind. If you can't respond without being unpleasant, then don't bother to answer the question.
    Because his anchor was snarled up by the rusty old one exactly as he described?

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Posts
    5,264

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by noelex View Post
    Here is another example. This convex plough anchor has been dropped with only a token amount of setting force, as shown by the shallow and short scrape mark.

    Convex plough anchors take a long distance to set, so need a long setting force before they start to dig in.
    Just to correct this rather provocative, sweeping and incorrect statement - Our convex anchor, an Anchorright Excel sets in a shank length, whose shank length is under a metre.

    This is what a forum member said of his anchor:

    "Another Anchor thread :O but its simple (hopefully)
    I've used a CQR cast copy, that came with the boat, for 9 years, until the shank fractured during a blow in a Spanish port.
    This was a blessing, as the replacement 25lb CQR was a far superior replacement, though how well you were anchored was very dependent on technique, requiring about one boat length to set.
    That anchor finally wore out (the pin joint enlarges and setting becomes dodgy). I finally replaced the anchor with a 25kg Mantus (I suspect the others such as the Spade, Rocna and Ultra are indistinguishable in performance if not in price). My kedges are a Delta, SWMF Danforth and a Fortress.
    The Mantus sets in about 3m reverse, digs into any soft substrate and resets easily. Its good for 42 knots constant, on a 5:1 scope. In soft substrates it only just beats the Danforth, but resets better. The Fortress is as good as the Danforth, much lighter. The Delta is as good as the CQR was, but easier to stow.
    Choice of anchor has to be down to the composition of the sea-floor, (round Bardsey a grapnel or fisherman has to be favourite, in Alvor the largest fluke area anchor is key)."

    I think a fairly honest appraisal.

    To me 3m setting for a 'modern' anchor seems excessive - but not unexpected given the design.

    Jonathan
    Last edited by Neeves; 10-07-19 at 11:03.

  7. #27
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    6,854

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by rakaaw View Post
    See #1
    Fair enough. I didn't notice that. With that out, I still can't understand how he dragged in so little wind. If it was me, I'd be worried.

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Sydney, Australia.
    Posts
    5,264

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Norman,

    I stand to be corrected (and even told I'm confrontational) but my interpretation is:

    I too missed the length of chain deployed - primarily because it is only mentioned, not at deployment, but on retrieval. All that chain must weigh - but only 16m of it would be lifted at any one time and then plus anchor and scrap metal

    Vic's anchor was not set but entangled with a bit of ironmongery (so heavy that when he came to retrieve the anchor - he also lifted the ironmongery and it tripped the circuit breaker).

    When he went to power set the anchor he used lowish revs, lower than he would normally, and this was insufficient to drag the anchor with the ironmongery - but maybe it was enough to loosen the old iron from its hold on the seabed. Later the breeze picked up and the whole shebang started to move. Vic noticed the movement took action - and tripped the circuit breaker, see above.

    My further interpretation is - his anchor was never set - just fouled, enough to hold under low revs.

    I don't know how heavy the scrap metal was - but his circuit breaker seems to have too low a rating.

    I was under the impression one's windlass should be able to lift the whole rode + anchor - hanging vertically (without tripping the circuit breaker nor burning out the windlass).

    Its not an unusual scenario - we hooked a gas cylinder once, others have hooked supermarket trolleys, water logged tree trunks, old ground chains and carpets - and I am sure there are many interesting items down there. I have seen towels fall into the sea and once a row of Navy 'captain's', or are they 'Director's' deck chairs (none of which were retrieved).

    You can sometimes tell if the anchor is not set 'correctly' or 'normally' simply by touching the chain, with fingers, outboard from the bow roller when the chain is under tension and feeling the vibration (or lack of). I would have thought you could feel the anchor grinding on the scrap iron - not knowing what it was but knowing it was not 'normal'.

    Vic do you touch your rode when you set - if so - did it not feel 'different'.

    Jonathan
    Last edited by Neeves; 10-07-19 at 11:53.

  9. #29
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
    Posts
    19,378

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanS View Post
    Fair enough. I didn't notice that. With that out, I still can't understand how he dragged in so little wind. If it was me, I'd be worried.
    If one's anchor is stuck on something on the bottom such that the point of the anchor cannot dig into the seabed, it isn't going to set.

    Richard

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Posts
    6,854

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    If one's anchor is stuck on something on the bottom such that the point of the anchor cannot dig into the seabed, it isn't going to set.

    Richard
    If one's anchor is stuck on something on the bottom to the extent that the windlass cannot lift it, the boat shouldn't drag, or alternatively the windlass settings are inadequate. I fouled a chain with my anchor last month, and therefore the boat was going nowhere.

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