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  1. #161
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by sailaboutvic View Post
    I watch the Voltage , 12.7v at windlass cable it dropped to 9.8v , breaker never trip and we hauled up 35 mts of chain plus anchor .
    9.8v is too low. This will significantly affect the performance of the anchor winch. In previous posts you mentioned a minimum voltage that was considerably higher (11.6v) at maximium load when the CB tripped.
    Under what circumstances was the 9.8v and how was this measured?

  2. #162
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by noelex View Post
    9.8v is too low. This will significantly affect the performance of the anchor winch. In previous posts you mentioned a minimum voltage that was considerably higher (11.6v) at maximium load when the CB tripped.
    Under what circumstances was the 9.8v and how was this measured?
    This was measured with no engine running at the v- v+ at the solenoid.
    Agree it's low , but even so it still managed to haul up the chain and anchor without the trip setting off.
    I was only experimented to see if them saying the voltage is too low in their email to see what happen with a even lower voltage .
    This was just a one off , as said we always have engine on and motoring forward to wards anchor .

    The other test when the voltages drop to 11.6 was done with engine on and at 1000 rpm
    Last edited by sailaboutvic; 19-07-19 at 10:36.
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  3. #163
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Please pardon my ignorance, but if the spec for the windlass is given as 1250kg maximum pull, does it mean that? I appreciate that it won't lift that, because of friction and change of direction at the bow roller. What would you expect it to be able to lift?

  4. #164
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanS View Post
    Please pardon my ignorance, but if the spec for the windlass is given as 1250kg maximum pull, does it mean that? I appreciate that it won't lift that, because of friction and change of direction at the bow roller. What would you expect it to be able to lift?
    They are saying 170 kg working load.
    I also find it miss leading
    Last edited by sailaboutvic; 19-07-19 at 11:20.
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  5. #165
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    Nov 2011
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    Sydney, Australia.
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Our Maxwell RC 8-6, a 6mm gypsy and 1000 watt motor has a static hold of 1,200kg and a maximum pull of 600kg. The hold appears to reference the specification of the whole assembly (and I assume it implies the platform to which the windlass is attached is stronger than the static hold). The pull reflects the power of the motor (as the 'smaller' windlass with a smaller motor, 600 watt, has only a pull of 350kg - but the same hold, of 1200kgs). Our rode weighs in total, excluding any scrap iron and mud, in air, 70kg.

    The 600 watt motor retrieves chain at 28m/min and the 1000 watt motor retrieves 8mm chain at 32m/min - very fast.

    It is at this point I have to query the blanket suggestion that one should not use the windlass to move the vessel toward the anchor (but only use the engine(s). The largest snatch load I have measured, with a load cell, for our yacht, at a 5:1 scope and in 35 knots of wind is between 650kg and 700kg. The tension to lift a 8mm chain (so all of it is off the seabed) at 5:1 scope with 30m deployed is 70kg, in water and that 70kg is about the tension developed with that same rode at 20 knots of wind. I find it difficult to believe that 'dragging' our yacht, through the water, approaches a load of 100kgs - yet the windlass is rated to 600kg.

    I actually agree that running the engine(s) - to generate power (electricity) is advantageous when you retrieve the anchor and as you are running the engines you might as well motor toward where you think the anchor lies - but the strict adherence to the practice might vary markedly from yacht to yacht. I admit we have specifically over specified our motor - I like the safety factor (and the cost difference was not large).

    Jonathan
    Last edited by Neeves; 19-07-19 at 11:43.

  6. #166
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Personally I having got a leg to stand on , they made it clear I needed to fit one of their breakers on ,
    The small amount I know about the subjest tell me if my breaker trips at 160A then it find with they windlass so no point in spending £170 .
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  7. #167
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by sailaboutvic View Post
    This was measured with no engine running at the v- v+ at the solenoid.
    Some battery voltage sag without the input from the alternator is too be expected with the windlass load, but that is a little too much.

    Quote Originally Posted by NormanS View Post
    Please pardon my ignorance, but if the spec for the windlass is given as 1250kg maximum pull, does it mean that? I appreciate that it won't lift that, because of friction and change of direction at the bow roller. What would you expect it to be able to lift?
    The maximum windlass load of 1250Kg is at stall. So the windlass cannot lift this weight, as the motor will not turn. In theory it could lift 1249kg, as the windlass should be turning (but very slowly). Think of the 1250kg number a little like the breaking load of a rope.

    The 1250kg can only be applied for a very short time.

    Some manufacturers also quote a “maximum hold”. This number just means the maximum load before the worm drive gearbox and motor is forced backwards or before damage occurs. It is not related to the lifting ability.

    The “working load” is a vague number that depends on the how the manufacturer defines this parameter. More useful is a “continuous load” number which is quoted by some manufacturers. As the name implies, this is the lifting force the winch can provide on a continuous basis (providing the test parameters of voltage and ambient temperature etc are met). Higher loads can only be used for a limited time

    These loads are at the anchor winch. The change in direction and friction over the bow roller will reduce the available lift.

    The numbers from different manufacturers can only be very roughly compared, as the difference in test parameters (such as voltage) will make a significant difference. Some manufacturers do produce guidelines that provide some information as to the weight of ground tackle that may be suitable for their different models.

    An alternative is to talk to other users of the same windlass. Sailing forums provide an ideal venue for these questions. If the windlass has performed well in real life on a boat with the same, or heavier chain (size and length), anchor weight, and has been used in a similar (or shallower) depth of anchorages, then this provides a realistic indication that the model will be satisfactory.

    For a cruising boat It is worth considering oversizing the anchor winch. It nice to have some reserve to lift heavier loads in emergency cases, such as the example shown in this thread. Keeping the load well within the anchor winches capabilities is also one factor that helps reliability.

  8. #168
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeves View Post
    It is at this point I have to query the blanket suggestion that one should not use the windlass to move the vessel toward the anchor (but only use the engine(s). The largest snatch load I have measured, with a load cell, for our yacht, at a 5:1 scope and in 35 knots of wind is between 650kg and 700kg. The tension to lift a 8mm chain (so all of it is off the seabed) at 5:1 scope with 30m deployed is 70kg, in water and that 70kg is about the tension developed with that same rode at 20 knots of wind. I find it difficult to believe that 'dragging' our yacht, through the water, approaches a load of 100kgs - yet the windlass is rated to 600kg.

    Jonathan
    The loads are additive, load of chain + load of wind and waves on bow + load of boat in water. If wind/waves is zero then a large force is excluded so no problem in that case and we would not be so prescriptive about not towing the boat.

    Richard

  9. #169
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    @noelex " Some battery voltage sag without the input from the alternator is too be expected with the windlass load, but that is a little too much."
    Ok so what we saying ,
    voltage drop too much ?
    Or problem with batteries .?( batteries are just a year old Trojan 245 4x6v)
    Problem still was there with old set of batteries ? .
    Just to clear things in case I miss lead you ,
    this reading was taken while collecting the full amount of chain 35mts anchor and pulling the boat forward at the same time ,
    any suggestion please .
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  10. #170
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    Dec 2003
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    5,492

    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by sailaboutvic View Post
    Ok so what we saying ,
    voltage drop too much ?
    Or problem with batteries .?( batteries are just a year old Trojan 245 4x6v)
    Trojan 245? Do you have the exact battery name?

    I ask because deep cycle batteries are normally not a good choice in high CCA applications. Bear in mind that excessively low voltages can damage electric motors.

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