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  1. #141
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by sailaboutvic View Post
    All connection have been clean and checked over and over ,
    Hold my hands up ele isn't really my thing . Most of the general stuff I find with and I sure if this problem was straight forward I would had sorted it by now . But seems not . Question Don you worked out that cable was 20mm sq , how did you come to that , don't you times the cable to get the Sq in which case it be 25 mm sq ? Always willing to lean
    Okay, so 5mm cable diameter implies a 2.5mm radius.

    Area of circle = Pi x r^2 (i.e. radius squared x pi)
    Pi = 3.14

    So, Area = 3.14 x 2.5 x 2.5 = 19.625mm^2

  2. #142
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by noelex View Post
    That is small. Around 20 mm squared.

    The current carrying capacity of a single wire like this, not in the engine room, and fitted with 75C insulation is around 110A. This is for a free conductor in air.

    Derating for a wire bundle gives 94A. This is not in the engine room. The temperature inside the windlass housing on deck in an aluminium enclosure will be high and I would use the engine room numbers which assumes a higher ambient temperature.

    A bundled 75C insulated wire in the engine room is rated at around 70A. Many marine wires are produced with a higher rated insulation. If you can find any markings on the cable that would be a help. If we assume the wire has a better 105C insulation rating the number with the above criteria rises to around 97A. Circuit protection devices can have a rating above the wire rating. Up to 150% is permitted in some cases.

    So the above gives you a comprehensive guide to the possible rating of this unknown wire.

    Given the uncertainties I would be uncomfortable recommending anything over your existing 100A circuit breaker, but the guidelines could be interpreted to permit a slightly higher rating manly depending on the unknown insulation of the wire.
    That's not good news ,
    The wires leave the motor almost immediately into the anchor locker and within a very short distance enter where the solenoid is inside the boat , so th wire would be pretty cool .
    Now you really holding me back from fitting a bigger breaker Noelex .
    What do you make out of the solenoid connection get a bit warm , would you say that's normal ?
    And the new readings on current , the different of 160A in the first test ,
    when on the second tested again with same RPM 1000 but this time the boat in neutral using the windlass to haul in chain and anchor current 95A and the breaker not tripping .
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  3. #143
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    Okay, so 5mm cable diameter implies a 2.5mm radius.

    Area of circle = Pi x r^2 (i.e. radius squared x pi)
    Pi = 3.14

    So, Area = 3.14 x 2.5 x 2.5 = 19.625mm^2
    Thank Don ,
    in my head it been ie5x5 of cause that's the sq not dia
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  4. #144
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by sailaboutvic View Post
    Now you really holding me back from fitting a bigger breaker Noelex .
    Sorry, it is marginal. It is a pity that some manufacturers cut tolerances so fine. Most wire is marked so see if you can find the insulation value. That would help.

    Quote Originally Posted by sailaboutvic View Post
    What do you make out of the solenoid connection get a bit warm , would you say that's normal ?
    A bit warm is normal for these currents, but rather than speculating, the voltage drop of any component can be easily individually measured.

    The measurement needs to be under load, as I am sure you know by now . The multimeter leads will give a direct reading of the voltage drop in the components, connections, or wire between the two probes.

    So keep both leads on the positive or negative side of the circuit and you can measure the voltage drop between any two points. This test measures voltage drop directly. It does not read the battery voltage. So a typical voltage reading between the two probes might be 0.1v, indicating this voltage drop is present between these two points in the circuit.

    I Hope that makes sense.

    Using this method you can measure the voltage drop at various points and over various components on both the positive and negative sides of the circuit. It is another very powerful test for isolating electrical problems.
    Last edited by noelex; 15-07-19 at 13:37.

  5. #145
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Ok just to get this right and make sure I not given the wrong info and wasted your and every body else time .
    when I did my voltage drop test , I connect one prob to a long wire to be the meter would able to reach to the solenoid.
    One end was kept on the batteries, the meter was moved alone to each point ( breaker in breaker out , solenoid) first with load , then with load while the windlass was operated.
    This is how I got tho reading
    (( Batteries to one side of breaker 14.4 .... under load 12.4v
    Batteries to the out side of breaker 14.4 under load 12.4v
    Batteries to solenoid 14.4 under load goes down 11.6v as it trips ))
    The last test was batteries voltages , has in any test prob on Pos , neg at the windlass again under load
    Edit .
    What this tells me is underload there a .8 different in reading from voltages at breaker then at the solenoid ,
    With no load there no drop right up to the solenoid. 14.4v
    Last edited by sailaboutvic; 15-07-19 at 13:49.
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  6. #146
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by sailaboutvic View Post
    Ok just to get this right and make sure I not given the wrong info and wasted your and every body else time .
    when I did my voltage drop test , I connect one prob to a long wire to be the meter would able to reach to the solenoid.
    One end was kept on the batteries, the meter was moved alone to each point ( breaker in breaker out , solenoid) first with load , then with load while the windlass was operated.
    This is how I got tho reading
    (( Batteries to one side of breaker 14.4 .... under load 12.4v
    Batteries to the out side of breaker 14.4 under load 12.4v
    Batteries to solenoid 14.4 under load goes down 11.6v as it trips ))
    The last test was batteries voltages , has in any test prob on Pos , neg at the windlass again under load
    Edit .
    What this tells me is underload there a .8 different in reading from voltages at breaker then at the solenoid ,
    With no load there no drop right up to the solenoid. 14.4v
    Perhaps you could draw a quick diagram to make it clearer.

    I am not sure I understand exactly what was done, but you may have been measuring the voltage drop on only one side of the circuit.

  7. #147
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by noelex View Post
    Perhaps you could draw a quick diagram to make it clearer.

    I am not sure I understand exactly what was done, but you may have been measuring the voltage drop on only one side of the circuit.
    Well you did ask me to draw you a picture
    As you can see , or you may not see , one probe is kept on the batteries the oth er is moved along to each of the connection in turn .
    Edit
    So what I got was drop from 14.2 to 11.6 on what ever side I put the meter on , pos and Neg side .
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by sailaboutvic; 15-07-19 at 16:55.
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  8. #148
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Thanks for the diagram but I am still a little confused. The diagram shows the meter in two different positions measuring the voltage drop on the positive side in several positions and the negative side in one position.

    These readings should be directly measuring the voltage drop so the results should be fractions of a volt (0.1, or 0.5v etc) but the only readings listed are much higher (12.3, 11.9 etc) which indicates these readings were made with the meter probes placed on the negative and positive sides of circuit, not as shown in the diagram.

    I am obviously missing something. Hopefully someone else can understand.

    Can you access the windlass motor terminals directly or is this impossible/impractical? How is the 20mm square negative motor cable joined to the thicker negative battery cable? Can you place one of the meter probes at this junction? This is not as good as the negative windlass motor terminal, but is the nearest electrical junction on the negative side to the motor itself.
    Last edited by noelex; 15-07-19 at 17:49.

  9. #149
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Sorry , so many reading I given the wrong reading , as you said there are voltages reading .
    Drop test .
    On V- .6 drop , v- runs from batteries to windlass wires
    On V+ batt to breaker in .6 breaker out .6 solenoid feed .8 solenoid windlass connection.8

    Reading taken under load

    Edit
    So there a .2 different in the v- and v+ I put that down to there more connection on the v+ side . Correct .
    Last edited by sailaboutvic; 15-07-19 at 18:43.
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  10. #150
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by noelex View Post
    Thanks for the diagram but I am still a little confused. The diagram shows the meter in two different positions measuring the voltage drop on the positive side in several positions and the negative side in one position.

    These readings should be directly measuring the voltage drop so the results should be fractions of a volt (0.1, or 0.5v etc) but the only readings listed are much higher (12.3, 11.9 etc) which indicates these readings were made with the meter probes placed on the negative and positive sides of circuit, not as shown in the diagram.

    I am obviously missing something. Hopefully someone else can understand.

    Can you access the windlass motor terminals directly or is this impossible/impractical? How is the 20mm square negative motor cable joined to the thicker negative battery cable? Can you place one of the meter probes at this junction? This is not as good as the negative windlass motor terminal, but is the nearest electrical junction on the negative side to the motor itself.
    Neg windlass terminal join the 50mm sq cable both have eyelets and they join in a small busbar .

    To access

    windlass motor there no terminals , the cables are connected to the bush holder some how , been a while since I looked .
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