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  1. #201
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by dom View Post
    And you’ve had cutouts at that higher 11.8v level?

    Or do they primarily occur in the sub-10v region when the motor is slowing and amps start to rise to maintain the necessary torque?
    Sorry Don I lost,
    are you asking if the breaker trips at 11.8v level ? If so I can't answer Has times when it happens we haven't notice what the voltages are .
    But during all the test it hasn't .
    Some time to day I check on at what point my alternator kicks in and report back , but as I have seen 14.1v at the windlass when doing some test I would say it's kicked in .
    I think I said we have an external smart regulator that pushes a bit more voltages into the batteries for X amount of mins then goes back down for so long and once again push extra voltages in ,
    Last edited by sailaboutvic; 20-07-19 at 12:05.
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  2. #202
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeves View Post
    I don't see the, any, advantage of wiring the windlass to the start battery (particularly if the start battery is small).

    I was under the distinct impression that the characteristics of the ideal engine start battery were, very, district from the house bank (and windlass).

    Jonathan
    Can't remember the size of the starter battery and I having a day off from pulling the boat apart and test , it's a big up evil not a matter of opening a cardboard . But I tho the opposite , motors need a starter batteries because they will pull Amps down quickie and started batteries will aloud that ,
    where a house batteries don't like that's.
    Even so as posted before the voltages reading where the same doing the same test to what ever bank I connected the cables too .
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  3. #203
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Vic, the good here is that with the additional data you are providing this looks increasingly like a voltage problem. Keep those engine rpm up a tad - even in neutral - and give the motor a second when it’s slowing under load for a little slack to develop in the system before pulling again. Use a little forward on the engine as necessary and if that is a possibility.

    The problem may just go away!

  4. #204
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Dom,

    I don't know where the windlass controls are, I assume - the bow.

    Following what you say - if you are at the bow you might not hear the engine slowing. Its worth having Vic or his wife at the bow (operating the windlass) and the other listening to the engine slowing (as the alternator kicks in - its an obvious sound near the engine - maybe less so at the bow.). Though at high revs in neutral it might not be relevant. If I understand Noelex correctly he is saying once the alternator kicks in - it will stay 'operating'.

    I stand to be corrected but running the engine at a decent amount above tick-over out of gear seems like a sensible idea.

    But I also conclude that the start battery is simply not man enough (or the voltage would not be the issue)

    You should be able to run the windlass without the engine running (even if its not good practice).

    Jonathan

  5. #205
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Quote Originally Posted by Neeves View Post
    Dom,

    I don't know where the windlass controls are, I assume - the bow.

    Following what you say - if you are at the bow you might not hear the engine slowing. Its worth having Vic or his wife at the bow (operating the windlass) and the other listening to the engine slowing (as the alternator kicks in - its an obvious sound near the engine - maybe less so at the bow.). Though at high revs in neutral it might not be relevant. If I understand Noelex correctly he is saying once the alternator kicks in - it will stay 'operating'.

    I stand to be corrected but running the engine at a decent amount above tick-over out of gear seems like a sensible idea.

    But I also conclude that the start battery is simply not man enough (or the voltage would not be the issue)

    You should be able to run the windlass without the engine running (even if its not good practice).

    Jonathan
    Yes, that all sounds good. BTW, when I referred to a slowing motor I really meant the windlass, but with a biggie alternator the engine may certainly slow too. Re alternator ‘kicking in’ and ‘staying in’, be a bit careful here; if we are referring to a solenoid which some boats have to require the engine to be running, then yes, once open it will prob stay open. If however we are referring to the alternator itself, it depends. It’s best as you say to keep it a little above its kick-in rpm to keep a healthy charge flowing and thereby keep the voltage up. It might also be sensible to run the main engine for 5 or 10 mins or so to allow the house batts to settle before commencing windlass work. Basically, get everything on your side voltage wise!

    If using a start batt for the windlass, seems dodgy to me, but if going that route then it most certainly needs to be suitably specced. In fact, apart from testing (which is I suspect what VIc means), I would strongly advise against this approach.

  6. #206
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Ok to put everyone mind at rest at 1000 RPM , if I turn off the panels before hand it's showing 14.4v
    So answer to the question is the alternator had kicked in before 1000rpm .

    I did Test the other day at different RPM voltage at windlass the voltage didn't change if you increase the RPM . This also shows increasing RPM don't help has the alternator had reach its full out put at the battery end .

    Also I know I keep backtracking , as I said some where else . Cables connected to the started batteries or house batteries made no different to the voltages drop under load .

    Am no expect other wise I wouldn't be bothering you kind guys with my problem
    But all this tell me the problems isn't the batteries.

    I ask a question but in the Miss mass of question and answer it's got must had got lost .

    How do I reduce the voltages drop at the windlass ?
    0.6 v- and 0.9 v+ a round drop of 1.5v

    Before answering please take in consideration.
    The cables are over sized for the distance.
    Out of the 0.9 on the v+ .04 out of the 0.9 is lost through master switch, breaker and solenoid, so in really only 0.5v is lost in the cable .
    All connection have been cleaned and cleaned again .
    Other then moving the batteries nearer to the windlass which isn't possible ,
    What else can I do to reduce the drop?
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  7. #207
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    For a 12m run, at 150A, 50mm^2 cable would suggest a theoretical reduction of 1.25v.

    Add a little more for connections and your 1.5v drop is right on the money.

    Nothing more you can do, but not a prob as well within spec of your lofrans.

    However: I would check the voltage across the windlass and compare that with the voltage across the batt to make sure we are measuring this correctly
    Last edited by dom; 20-07-19 at 14:22.

  8. #208
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Thanks Don at less we now can all agree the voltages drop is about right ,
    And as lofran suggest a much small cable , they much had cal the drop and except that the drop won't effect the windless from working correctly..

    Can we now all agree there nothing wrong with the size of the cables ?

    Don re you question .
    I take the reading first from the batteries terminals, then I take my iPhone which has a Victron app to the front with me so I can re check as I taken reading at the solenoid.
    Please note this is done with the panels turned off.

    I think unless anyone else have any suggestion we can now forget about the batteries ,RPM and Cables .

    It doesn't leave much , breaker, solenoid, windlass or some part of the of the windlass .
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  9. #209
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Vic,

    It a good thread. Anyone who has followed it would have learnt at least one thing new

    Jonathan

  10. #210
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    Default Re: Anchor thread with a lesson

    Yes people who know the basic stuff when it come to electric like my self would had learn some thing from it .

    When I post I like to post as much info as I can and keeping it short , for me short is hundreds of words ,
    I wish I could write like some here , Just a few sentences that say it all .

    The thread been helpful to me in that it's confirm the results I been getting meanings .

    When Noelex ask me to explain how I was doing the drop test that help too it confirm to myself I was doing it right .

    One problem was I give so much info and did so many test and I tried to put everything down that at times I ended up confusing people here with what I was saying like in (#158 ) when that test was done in a very different way to see what the results would be and see how the windlass and breaker would behalf at low voltages ,

    That test wrongly give people the impression this was what was happening in day to day usage of the windlass .
    Maybe best if I left it out but I wanted to share in case someone picked up on something ,

    For me I'm no further forward then this time last year , I came to the concussion then the problem is
    A.... I needed a bigger breaker or
    B.... the problem with the windlass .

    I was hoping someone would had taken all the info I given as in motor size , cables , length run and was able to give me a size for a breaker that would be safe to use , but I understand other factor need to be taken In Considering .

    since this thread drifted on to the windlass I have hauled up many times to move , included all the hauling up to do test at time putting the windlass under extreme stress not once has it tripped ,
    in a nut shell there my problem , not knowing if it will trip tomorrow or ever again .

    Has for lofran and it parent company I have to say I am very disappointed with them , it taken six phone calls UK, Italy and Greece and five email to get a reply .
    In there email they suggested the problem may be the breaker which isn't one of these or batteries problem .
    It wouldn't be the windlass or the problem would happen all the time , to me that rubbish and a get out clause , intermittent problem can happen with any equipment.

    They didn't answer my question , could I fit a bigger breaker then 100A ,
    but only to say I needed to fit there own breaker ,
    Maybe if it was priced reasonable people would use there breaker more freely .
    So yes a big thumb down to lofrans service department.

    Unless someone come up with a better suggestion, or can give me the size of a bigger breaker that's safe to fit , I continue living with it , come the end of the season I will strip the windlass down to check bearings and gears also check the brushes and armature for wear .

    Thanks everyone with bare in with me and at times my erratic posting .
    Last edited by sailaboutvic; 21-07-19 at 06:56.
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