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  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    March
    Posts
    560

    Default Extracting Part From Flywheel Cover/Housing Without Removing Engine

    I fitted a new starter motor, and it failed in within 10 - 20 starts.

    I removed the starter motor and found that a part had broken off and fallen to the bottom of the flywheel housing.

    I believe this was due to the fact that the new starter motor had a slightly larger circumference than the original, only by a few millimeters, they both looked similar enough not to raise any alarms.

    When fitted the engine turned over by hand without any noticeable problems, but whilst starting or running the gear ring must have caught on the starter motor housing causing it to break., the piece indicated by the red arrow:





    I have since been refunded of the starter that broke and purchased a new OEM starter motor. Measuring with a micrometer the difference looks to be about 5mm, but I can't be more exact until I retrieve the broken piece.

    Now I am not able fit the new starter (and get sailing) until I remove this broken piece, I suspect that there is no alternative but to remove the engine yet again to gain access. So far I have wasted 1.5 days tring to extract the piece with the engine in place, nothing has worked and I wish I had just invested the time in to removing the engine. But, the engine has been in and out a few times this year already ,and i am really loathe to do it again unless there really is no alternative.

    I don't believe there is enough room at the rear of the engine bay to remove the housing whilst the engine is in place, and the housing is also the attachement point for the 2 rear engine mounts, So I cannot just disconnect the gearbox, unbolt the engine mounts from the bearers and slide forward as I also need to remove the engine mounts themselves.

    The things I have tried so far, all by access through the hole where the starter motor would fit:

    1. Borrowing some small hands - the part is still just beyond finger tip reach
    2. Magnet - The part is an alloy and non-magnetic
    3. Flexible claw - Hard to see/feel, could not get a grip. Not enough space to use a clew and endoscope together so have to work blind
    4. Gaffa tape on the end of a bent piece of metal - Hard to precisely place the gaffa tape blind, not enough room to work with at the same time as an endocope
    5. Thick battery cable pushed round so that the broken piece can be pushed upwards towards the starter hole - There is a raised ridge at the bottom of the flywheel housing that prevents the cable passing this point.
    6. Gaffa tape moulded with ridges (like a flapper wheel) and stuck to the gear ring & flywheel - Anything of any thickness stops the engine rotating fully, I thing at the ridge mentioned above, and anything small enough to allow full rotation does not hit the broken piece and raise it as hoped.


    Should I bite the bullet, give up, and just crack on with removing the engine?
    1976 Westerly Centaur, GEMINI

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Posts
    5,308

    Default Re: Extracting Part From Flywheel Cover/Housing Without Removing Engine

    You may have damaged the ring as well.
    I'd rather be naked
    www.mastaclimba.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
    Posts
    19,429

    Default Re: Extracting Part From Flywheel Cover/Housing Without Removing Engine

    I doubt whether the ring will be damaged as those teeth are much harder than the starter motor casing.

    It seems that you've tried many good ideas but you have another option. Bind a piece of wire around the end of the endoscope and lead a short length forward so that a small loop can be formed in front of the camera but a small enough loop so you can see what the loop is touching.

    You now have the possibility of sticking something sticky onto the loop and guiding that so that it touches the part and sticks to it. You could try double-sided tape or blu-tack as both these have worked for me. but it depends how heavy and how greasy the broken part is. However, the ultimate solution if these are not strong enough, is a piece of soft epoxy putty like Miliput or even a blob or something like Araldite or similar. You will need to rest this against the piece of alloy and then leave it to set for a few hours before extracting.

    Richard

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    37,288

    Default Re: Extracting Part From Flywheel Cover/Housing Without Removing Engine

    It's amazing what you can pick up with the right vacuum cleaner.
    Try a nozzle of say 12mm bore hose taped to the regular nozzle.

    But you get to a point where you want to have it apart and see what's really happened.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    March
    Posts
    560

    Default Re: Extracting Part From Flywheel Cover/Housing Without Removing Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Graham_Wright View Post
    You may have damaged the ring as well.
    I think I may be OK there, looking at the teeth on the ring gear, they are shiny where they have been in contact with the starter, but luckily they appear undamaged.
    1976 Westerly Centaur, GEMINI

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Fortrose
    Posts
    1,519

    Default Re: Extracting Part From Flywheel Cover/Housing Without Removing Engine

    I don't want to be a harbinger of doom, but I'd a similar experience last year with a replacement starter motor, and it HAD damaged the ring gear I'm afraid. It was yesterday that I removed the engine and replaced the ring gear, a day of joy all around of course. The damaged ring had 4-5 teeth missing.
    Folkboat 'Stakkr' - Inverness - http://islandrov.wix.com/island-rov-web

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Home UK Midlands / Boat Croatia
    Posts
    19,429

    Default Re: Extracting Part From Flywheel Cover/Housing Without Removing Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by lw395 View Post
    It's amazing what you can pick up with the right vacuum cleaner.
    Try a nozzle of say 12mm bore hose taped to the regular nozzle.
    Yes, I did that with the hoover nozzle, a hose and a load of duct tape a few months ago. It's a great idea in this case but unfortunately, it didn't work for me because the tiny bolt had fallen down through the car bulkhead to a place where it will never be seen again.

    Not a big deal as I just had to find another M5 bolt, cut it to length and paint it black.

    Richard

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    37,288

    Default Re: Extracting Part From Flywheel Cover/Housing Without Removing Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardS View Post
    Yes, I did that with the hoover nozzle, a hose and a load of duct tape a few months ago. It's a great idea in this case but unfortunately, it didn't work for me because the tiny bolt had fallen down through the car bulkhead to a place where it will never be seen again.

    Not a big deal as I just had to find another M5 bolt, cut it to length and paint it black.

    Richard
    And one more rattle won't notice......
    :-)

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    UK East Coast
    Posts
    1,781

    Default Re: Extracting Part From Flywheel Cover/Housing Without Removing Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by GaryCottam View Post
    I fitted a new starter motor, and it failed in within 10 - 20 starts.

    I removed the starter motor and found that a part had broken off and fallen to the bottom of the flywheel housing.

    I believe this was due to the fact that the new starter motor had a slightly larger circumference than the original, only by a few millimeters, they both looked similar enough not to raise any alarms.

    When fitted the engine turned over by hand without any noticeable problems, but whilst starting or running the gear ring must have caught on the starter motor housing causing it to break., the piece indicated by the red arrow:

    I have since been refunded of the starter that broke and purchased a new OEM starter motor. Measuring with a micrometer the difference looks to be about 5mm, but I can't be more exact until I retrieve the broken piece.

    Now I am not able fit the new starter (and get sailing) until I remove this broken piece, I suspect that there is no alternative but to remove the engine yet again to gain access. So far I have wasted 1.5 days tring to extract the piece with the engine in place, nothing has worked and I wish I had just invested the time in to removing the engine. But, the engine has been in and out a few times this year already ,and i am really loathe to do it again unless there really is no alternative.

    I don't believe there is enough room at the rear of the engine bay to remove the housing whilst the engine is in place, and the housing is also the attachement point for the 2 rear engine mounts, So I cannot just disconnect the gearbox, unbolt the engine mounts from the bearers and slide forward as I also need to remove the engine mounts themselves.

    The things I have tried so far, all by access through the hole where the starter motor would fit:

    1. Borrowing some small hands - the part is still just beyond finger tip reach
    2. Magnet - The part is an alloy and non-magnetic
    3. Flexible claw - Hard to see/feel, could not get a grip. Not enough space to use a clew and endoscope together so have to work blind
    4. Gaffa tape on the end of a bent piece of metal - Hard to precisely place the gaffa tape blind, not enough room to work with at the same time as an endocope
    5. Thick battery cable pushed round so that the broken piece can be pushed upwards towards the starter hole - There is a raised ridge at the bottom of the flywheel housing that prevents the cable passing this point.
    6. Gaffa tape moulded with ridges (like a flapper wheel) and stuck to the gear ring & flywheel - Anything of any thickness stops the engine rotating fully, I thing at the ridge mentioned above, and anything small enough to allow full rotation does not hit the broken piece and raise it as hoped.


    Should I bite the bullet, give up, and just crack on with removing the engine?
    I have found one of these very good for retrieving small parts. I know the magnetic function is of no use to you but the claw on the end it excellent. https://www.halfords.com/workshop-to...c-pick-up-tool

    Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Suffolk
    Posts
    7,706

    Default Re: Extracting Part From Flywheel Cover/Housing Without Removing Engine

    Quote Originally Posted by Plum View Post
    I have found one of these very good for retrieving small parts. I know the magnetic function is of no use to you but the claw on the end it excellent. https://www.halfords.com/workshop-to...c-pick-up-tool

    Www.solocoastalsailing.co.uk
    See point 3 in post #1. I loaned Gary the one on my van, but he couldn't get it out with it.
    Rainbow Marine.
    www.rainbowmarine.co.uk

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