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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    on the boat
    Posts
    1,249

    Default Consultation on exhaust emissions on UK inland waterways

    I have not seen this mentioned here, could this be the beginning of the end for diesel engines on inland waterways and UK coastal waters for UK based boats?

    http://www.gov.uk/government/consult...l-for-evidence

    If you can I suggest that you contribute to it!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Lurking in the Thames Valley
    Posts
    277

    Default Re: Consultation on exhaust emissions on UK inland waterways

    Quote Originally Posted by Loddon View Post
    I have not seen this mentioned here, could this be the beginning of the end for diesel engines on inland waterways and UK coastal waters for UK based boats?
    !
    Yet the Port of London Authority are rapidly putting legacy passenger vessels with petrol engines out of service.
    Interesting dilemma.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Second Coast, Ross-shire, overlooking Gruinard Bay.
    Posts
    7,380

    Default Re: Consultation on exhaust emissions on UK inland waterways

    Well, I don't want a petrol engine in my boat, and I can't see an electric engine as a practical/affordable alternative.
    Kay Sarah Sarah
    57°51.42' N 5°29.44' W

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    3,526

    Default Re: Consultation on exhaust emissions on UK inland waterways

    Looks like we are heading back to the 1800's. The only way to realistically go zero emission on the coast by 2050 is to revert to sail. OK, we could have electric motors for the little bit at each end, but on passage it will be sail only, unless someone invents something very powerful and totally clean in the next 30 years.
    If found in the Brexit forum, please return to the real world.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Second Coast, Ross-shire, overlooking Gruinard Bay.
    Posts
    7,380

    Default Re: Consultation on exhaust emissions on UK inland waterways

    Quote Originally Posted by CLB View Post
    Looks like we are heading back to the 1800's. The only way to realistically go zero emission on the coast by 2050 is to revert to sail. OK, we could have electric motors for the little bit at each end, but on passage it will be sail only, unless someone invents something very powerful and totally clean in the next 30 years.
    Logical, but impractical.
    I guess the cost of replacing my donk with an electrical motor plus batteries of, as yet, undeveloped performance would render my 40+ year old GRP tub redundant.
    I may have only another decade of sailing (or more, or less) and I don't think I could, or would be prepared, spend the sort of money involved on the old girl.
    The end of my reasonably inexpensive and enjoyable freedom to sail where, when and how I am accustomed to.

    P.S. This thread is becoming convergent with the other two so I'm reverting to them.
    Bye for now folks.
    R
    Kay Sarah Sarah
    57°51.42' N 5°29.44' W

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Medway
    Posts
    19,992

    Default Re: Consultation on exhaust emissions on UK inland waterways

    Quote Originally Posted by CLB View Post
    Looks like we are heading back to the 1800's. The only way to realistically go zero emission on the coast by 2050 is to revert to sail. OK, we could have electric motors for the little bit at each end, but on passage it will be sail only, unless someone invents something very powerful and totally clean in the next 30 years.
    Electric .
    Upside .
    Actually it would be a very simple job to convert my boat and virtually every other sort of boat to electric for some sort of displacement propulsion.
    Normally lugging 3 monster batteries and ton or so of fuel around anyway not sure how much more a decent set of batteries would add to the boat weightwise.
    Could well adapt my sort of boating to a 6/7 knot lifestyle, downside would be endurance and the need for charging points.Most of my trips are usually 2/4 hours in duration max with most of the day spent moored or at anchor.
    My Boat spends most of its life quietly falling to bits on the pontoon anyway so plenty of time to slowly trickle charge batteries
    The sort of boating usually done on the Thames would be ideal for electric boats, merely a case of getting charging pylons installed to public and private moorings.
    Most marinas and boatyards will supply 16amps to your shorepower socket .
    You could use charging pylons for shore power.No more flat domestics and No charge card credit no power.
    If you want to moor away most vessels should be able to spend 24 hours on domestics anyhow.
    and the big plus...............Fresh Air and no pollution from oil or fuel.

    Downsides.Lack of range. ?
    Probably need a small get you home back up genny installed.
    Speed merchants would loose interest in boating.
    Last edited by oldgit; 15-07-19 at 21:43.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Consultation on exhaust emissions on UK inland waterways

    I sent the following...

    Dear sir, as a liesure boat owner, I'd like to add my thoughts for consideration.

    Whilst I acknowledge that modern engines are cleaner and more efficient than older ones, emmisions must still be related to the amount of fuel burnt.

    I have a 30 foot boat on the Thames, fitted with a single 62hp diesel engine, and it consumes 1.5 litre per hour.

    This compares to a car with a fuel consumption of say 35mpg equating to 9 litre per hour when traveling along the motorway in top gear at 70mph. The same car will consume nearer 15 litres per hour in traffic.

    Trucks and busses are neared to 20 litre per hour while cruising in top gear, and far more while stopping and starting in traffic in low gears.

    Most days on the river I see just one or two other boats; in the height of the season I may see 20 or so other boats on the move, in the winter I can cruise all say and see none. Whereas we have hundreds of thousands of cars, trucks and busses on our roads, not to mention the vast number of aircraft over-head all measuring thier fuel consumption in tons per hour.

    I feel the leisure boat contribution to emissions is incredibly small.

    Yours
    Mark Carpenter

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Medway
    Posts
    19,992

    Default Re: Consultation on exhaust emissions on UK inland waterways

    How hard could it be to retro fit a filter of some sort to a marine engine exhaust .Weight is hardly a problem and usually some unused space somewhere.
    Would have thought that boats on an inland non tidal navigation would be ideal testbed to try to eliminate exhaust emmisions especially from craft such as narrowboats etc .
    One could imagine opposition might come for those with large sea going vessels presently moored on the navigation.
    Suspect support would come from everybody else using the river/canal including walkers/cyclists/rowers and fishermen who probably represent the majority of folks who enjoy being on/near the water.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    3,526

    Default Re: Consultation on exhaust emissions on UK inland waterways

    Quote Originally Posted by oldgit View Post
    How hard could it be to retro fit a filter of some sort to a marine engine exhaust .Weight is hardly a problem and usually some unused space somewhere.
    Would have thought that boats on an inland non tidal navigation would be ideal testbed to try to eliminate exhaust emmisions especially from craft such as narrowboats etc .
    One could imagine opposition might come for those with large sea going vessels presently moored on the navigation.
    Suspect support would come from everybody else using the river/canal including walkers/cyclists/rowers and fishermen who probably represent the majority of folks who enjoy being on/near the water.
    Won't be easy on many types of boats. Shaft drive probably the easiest, as the exhaust systems are more open to modification, but stern drives and outboards, where the exhaust is integrated, would be difficult to impossible. Weight and space 'are' a problem on many smaller boats.

    I know this next statement will be controversial, but the walkers, fisherman, cyclists, rowers on the Thames, can only 'enjoy' the river in its current state thanks to the contribution of the boaters. If the boaters leave in any great numbers due to expensive or unrealistic regulations, the river will not be the same.
    If found in the Brexit forum, please return to the real world.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    334

    Default Re: Consultation on exhaust emissions on UK inland waterways

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark26 View Post
    I sent the following...

    Dear sir, as a liesure boat owner, I'd like to add my thoughts for consideration.

    Whilst I acknowledge that modern engines are cleaner and more efficient than older ones, emmisions must still be related to the amount of fuel burnt.

    I have a 30 foot boat on the Thames, fitted with a single 62hp diesel engine, and it consumes 1.5 litre per hour.

    This compares to a car with a fuel consumption of say 35mpg equating to 9 litre per hour when traveling along the motorway in top gear at 70mph. The same car will consume nearer 15 litres per hour in traffic.

    Trucks and busses are neared to 20 litre per hour while cruising in top gear, and far more while stopping and starting in traffic in low gears.

    Most days on the river I see just one or two other boats; in the height of the season I may see 20 or so other boats on the move, in the winter I can cruise all say and see none. Whereas we have hundreds of thousands of cars, trucks and busses on our roads, not to mention the vast number of aircraft over-head all measuring thier fuel consumption in tons per hour.

    I feel the leisure boat contribution to emissions is incredibly small.

    Yours
    Mark Carpenter
    Well put Mark

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