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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    147

    Default Advice about my anchor and chain please - see photos

    Hello all me again I have a question about my anchor and chain and I would be grateful for some assistance please.
    I have a 30ft 4 tonne sailing yacht and I am very new to both sailing and boat ownership.
    I have 40 metres of 8mm chain. The chain is joined in 2 places so it seems to be different batches - the amount of rust varies. I also have a 9kg anchor which i understand to be a CQR anchor- it has 'HKG' marked on it as well.

    I suppose my question is does any of the chain look dodgy ? I have read about getting the chain re galvanized. Does mine looks like it needs done ? I've take photos of the worst bits. A lot of it looks okay.

    Also if anyone would like to comment on the suitability of the anchor that would be useful. My boat will only ever be used in the west coast of scotland. I have never anchored before but I know I will be more of an anchoring type of person than a marina person. When I get more confident and experienced sailing I suspect I will be doing it a lot. Therefore I wouldn't mind investing in some better equipment if it was worthwhile. But if my existing equipment is suitable then that's great.

    I have read a lot about anchors on this forum and one that came up that seemed very good value is a kobra 2.

    Thanks very much
    Douglas


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  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Location
    North Wales, sailing Aegean Sea or Menai Strait
    Posts
    21,834

    Default Re: Advice about my anchor and chain please - see photos

    That chain is pretty rusty but probably within the guideline 10% loss of thickness. This will be at the joints between links, look ok to me but I suggest you measure. The shackle is bad: definitely change that now for a good one, Crosby would be ideal (see later). The C-link you have now looks like a U-ship 316 stainless one. It has about half the strength of new galvanised grade 30 chain.

    As a minimum I would change the shackle and the C-links, tecni-lift will supply them mail order, details on my website.

    However, in view of the condition of the chain I would replace it and have no C-links if you can afford it.
    Answers to some technical queries at new website http://coxeng.co.uk

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Poole
    Posts
    481

    Default Re: Advice about my anchor and chain please - see photos

    (Light blue touch paper and stand well clear)

    Ditch the CQR.

    You will sleep far better with any new generation anchor.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Home - Sothampton, Boat - Gosport
    Posts
    10,018

    Default Re: Advice about my anchor and chain please - see photos

    I wouldn't pretend to the same level of expertise as VC, so I'd follow his recommendations - change shackle and C-link immediately and save your pennies for a new lump of chain.

    My next suggestion will have a few people up in arms but, unless the area you sail is has a particularly abrasive bottom, you could use a mixed rode: a length of chain then rope - octoplait is WAY better than 3 ply as it's far less likely to twist and tangle. This allows you to have the ability to put more scope out and/or anchor in deeper waters with less, or at worst no more, weight than your present setup. If you have a windlass, this may not work for you as I understand many windlasses struggle with rope.

    Finally the anchor. Did I read 7KG on the shank? If so, it's definitely on the small side according to Lewmar. I won't presume to tell you the best anchor to buy, because I don't think there is one (ducks incoming ) but many years ago, I remember someone here asking the question "How do I know if my anchor's big enough?" One, only slightly tongue in cheek, reply was, "When everyone else in the marina's laughing at you". I have a 10KG Delta on my Snapdragon 24, which occasionally provokes mirth, but when the wind gets up and the laughing stops, I still sleep well at anchor. I prefer to have a lighter rode and a bigger anchor than a heavy rode and lighter anchor for the same weight.

    One option if you do haven't got a windlass is to use a higher grade 6mm chain; as strong as 8mm - and certainly stronger than what you've got now with the iffy connectors, but less than 2/3 the weight. Add a good lump of rope on the end and you can sit pretty in 20m of water and still lift it all by hand! You could do the same if you have got a windlass, but you'd need to change the gypsy.
    Steve
    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    147

    Default Re: Advice about my anchor and chain please - see photos

    Vyv thank you - I have came across a few of your articles when researching anchor stuff and they have been very useful. I'll do what you suggest as an interim.

    Graham - from reading many other posts that was what I am leaning towards. A kobra 2 14kg anchor is around £180 and seems to get good reviews. I would have thought something like that would be good value.

    Stemar it's a 9kg anchor. And yes I have thought about something like 30m of 6mm chain and then 30m of rope. I don't have a windlass.

    It would seem to me paying to get chain re galvanized might not be that cost effective ? Chain doesn't seem horribly expensive- please correct me if I've got this wrong.
    Thanks

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Essex
    Posts
    22,367

    Default Re: Advice about my anchor and chain please - see photos

    The old anchor won't stop working just because there are better ones. I would scrap everything else, try the anchor, and if I don't like it keep it as a kedge and get a new one.
    Far away is near at hand in images of elsewhere

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    N of Ardnamurchan, winter Loch Melfort
    Posts
    897

    Default Re: Advice about my anchor and chain please - see photos

    I had chain that was less badly corroded than yours regalvinised and it really only lasted one season.

    Suggest you have a look at Jimmy Green for chain - over the years I've found them fairly reliable.

    Shackles - fit 'green pin' shackles which are a bit stronger than the bog standard generic galvanised shackles of unknown manufacture.

    Anchor- many on the west coast of Scotland happily use a CQR, however it is an old design and you may like to consider the 'new generation' models. Not wishing to get into another best anchor thread, but Delta's are quite well regarded by the owner's of your type of boat (I have a Rocna, but with a significantly larger/heavier boat).

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Home - Sothampton, Boat - Gosport
    Posts
    10,018

    Default Re: Advice about my anchor and chain please - see photos

    Quote Originally Posted by johnalison View Post
    The old anchor won't stop working just because there are better ones. I would scrap everything else, try the anchor, and if I don't like it keep it as a kedge and get a new one.
    +1. Obviously it's been used a bit, so it may well be fine. I had a CQR when I bought Jissel and it was great. I lost it when it hooked on something and I couldn't free it, so I got another genuine one from a boat jumble and it just refused to set, so I started using a Delta I was storing for a liveaboard friend and it's never let me down, though even it took two tries to get a hold in the churned up soup that is much of the bottom of Newtown Creek the other day.
    Steve
    Never believe anything until it has been officially denied.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2019
    Posts
    147

    Default Re: Advice about my anchor and chain please - see photos

    Quote Originally Posted by Stemar View Post
    +1. Obviously it's been used a bit, so it may well be fine. I had a CQR when I bought Jissel and it was great. I lost it when it hooked on something and I couldn't free it, so I got another genuine one from a boat jumble and it just refused to set, so I started using a Delta I was storing for a liveaboard friend and it's never let me down, though even it took two tries to get a hold in the churned up soup that is much of the bottom of Newtown Creek the other day.
    Hi Steve, why would the same anchor perform differently for you do you think?Thanks

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Central Scotland
    Posts
    2,340

    Default Re: Advice about my anchor and chain please - see photos

    Comments on galvanizing (from a galvanizer)
    The life expectancy of galvanizing for a specific environment is proportional to thickness of the zinc coating, and is consumable. That is, the coating is a sacrificial one, and slowly erodes (in preference to the steel corroding - that's the "sacrificial" bit) until it's all consumed, and then the steel starts corroding. At this point of depletion of the zinc, you can expect some parts of the steel item, (links of the chain) to have brown on then - the first signs of rust. It won't all go uniformly though as it didn't all get the same exposure to seawater. (you rarely use the last metre or so).
    There are two systems of galvanizing chain, and the main difference is the thickness of the resulting coating (and therefore the life expectancy). The most common for new chain, is spin (or centrifuge) galvanizing. This arranges the chain to be pun in a centrifuge straight out of the molten zinc. You get a thinner coating, smoother, and all links are free of each other, not "welded" together with zinc. Only a few galvanizers have this process, but chain manufacturers who also galvanize their chain do it all that way.
    The other system is closer to jobbing galvanizing how general fabrications are processed. After emerging from the zinc, the chain is vibrated, rattles or shaken to get the worst of the surplus zinc off before it solidifies (freeze) in place. Some links will be a little welded together but easily knocked apart.

    The ISO standard for materials over 6mm thick calls for a coating of 85 microns minimum average. (That's 85 thousandths of a mm). But in practice you'll get more with standard galvanizing, perhaps 100-120 microns, and less with centrifuge galv.

    There's little to no difference between one galvanizers coating and another's other than thickness. Some people think that the galvanizer has a lot of control of the quality, the thickness and the shininess. They don't. The most important factor in determining thickness is the steel's chemistry, followed by immersion time followed by temperature. Temp isn't able to be altered much for technical reasons, immersion time is kept as short as possible to keep productivity up, so that leave steel chemistry, in particular Silicon and phosphorous.

    Shine of galvanizing is a real distraction. There's no difference in corrosion protection terms between bright mirror silver and dull grey. It's purely aesthetic difference, and after all after a couple of uses most anchors will be dull grey anyway. But people (like magpies) think shiney must be better! It's not. Its the same. Shine is influenced by immersion time in the zinc, and many galvanizers add a little aluminium to the zinc (typically 0.001%) to creat some shine, only because people like it, for no other good reason.


    If the galvanizing on a chain last only a short while (like a season mentioned above), then either it was really thin to start with (see above, centrifuging), or the conditions it encountered were really aggressive. Galvanizing is eaten rapidly by acids, and such as for example peaty water is acidic.


    Re-galvanizing has no appreciable effect on the strength of the steel. I've done research on this, and that demonstrated a tiny improvement in tensile strength, but no statistically significant. There's more variation from one batch of chain to another than there is before and after re-galvanizing.
    To re-galvanize a chain a galvanizer will firstly remove any remaining zinc. Galvanizing is an alloying reaction between chemically clean steel and molten zinc. It won't happen between old galvanizing and zinc, nor between rusty steel and zinc. The same acid that strips off the old remaining zinc also cleans the rust off the steel. In fact the pre-treatment in galvanizing is the complicated time consuming part, dipping in zinc is easy and quick.

    Another wearing aspect of an anchor chain is abrasion. In fact this is really the only reason to use any chain. How much chain to use (in a mixed rode) depends on factors such as conditions encountered? Coral? sharp rocks, abrasive sandy bottom? and practical apsects such as windlass gypsy fit. A rode can be all rope quite adequately for short periods, and many racers do that to save weight. At the other end of the spectrum, most cruiser use all chain. Weight is less of a worry, but the convenience of a rode of all the same material is high.
    Geoff. C.: Galvanizing and anchor manufacturing.

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