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  1. #111
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    25

    Default Re: HMRC consultation on Red Diesel

    Can anyone justify leisure yachts using lower-tax diesel....well, yes!

    Excise on fuel for roads supports investment in roads. And acts as a crude device to deter congestion. And reflects the severe social cost to health of diesel particulates in urban areas. None of which are reasonably applied to seafarers.

    Which leaves you with the fact it's just a revenue-raiser. Over to you for your taste in politics; I am of the view that the government is large and wasteful and we would in general be better off with lower taxes.

  2. #112
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    On the Celtic Fringe
    Posts
    14,129

    Default Re: HMRC consultation on Red Diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by BlowingOldBoots View Post
    On all the boats I have sailed, there has always been a large spare canister of diesel, about 25l size, in the cockpit locker. A second 25l container could easily be stored in most boats. A tank full and 2 x 25l containers should easily see most sailing yachts on the west coast get about between facilities offering quay side white.

    It's not hard to solve, it was the norm when I started sailing in the 80's to be that bit more self sufficient when going out the Clyde, no one batted an eye lid or wrung hands with fear and worry - folks even carried collapsable, shopping bag trolly devices to lug containers. This lack of can do attitude goes along with the desperate desire for pontoons, moorings and phone signals. White diesel is not hard to solve for sailing boats.

    Small children walk 10 miles each day for water in Africa, carrying a can in each hand and balancing one on their head head. It should be a piece of cake for us to manage white diesel in remote areas where quay side facilities are not available. Just get on with it.
    +1

  3. #113
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
    Posts
    9,206

    Default Re: HMRC consultation on Red Diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by BlowingOldBoots View Post
    Small children walk 10 miles each day for water in Africa, carrying a can in each hand and balancing one on their head head. It should be a piece of cake for us to manage white diesel in remote areas where quay side facilities are not available. Just get on with it.
    Well for a fiver a time you could possibly hire an illegal immigrant to do it for you here if you felt so inclined.
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

  4. #114
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    River Itchen, Southampton
    Posts
    6,954

    Default Re: HMRC consultation on Red Diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream believer View Post
    Well for a fiver a time you could possibly hire an illegal immigrant to do it for you here if you felt so inclined.
    Will I have to up it to a tenner for the 600litres I need today?

  5. #115
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Southminster, essex
    Posts
    9,206

    Default Re: HMRC consultation on Red Diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by Elessar View Post
    Will I have to up it to a tenner for the 600litres I need today?
    Wow!! £ 10-00 you lot are well healed.
    Down south Essex a tenner on Canvey Island would buy a 5 kids a blue fizzy drink, a big Mac, a nights stay in a burned out car for mum & lover & a nicked 32 inch flat screen TV for whole week. Might even buy some new trainers as well, if they could get in & out of the shop without being caught
    Last edited by Daydream believer; 20-07-19 at 11:10.
    It is all down to the fact that my wife does not understand me !!

  6. #116
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    I know how fast I'm going, but not where I am
    Posts
    6,940

    Default Re: HMRC consultation on Red Diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by KAL View Post
    Thank you Superheat. I don’t know many people who are willing to pay more than they actually have to, for something they buy, much less campaign to do so. Like most ordinary people, I have to try to get the best value for my spend. When I buy petrol or diesel for a car, I actively seek out the cheapest locally and go there. Why would anyone actively want to pay more for something, given the choice?
    The reason for wanting white diesel by the waterside is so those whose idea of fun is sailing to Belgium don't run the risk of a hefty fine on arrival. For sailing boats, as in the far flung bits of Scotland, the cost saving of red over white is pretty immaterial, it's availability that matters.

    Other EU countries have overlooked UK visiting boats turning up with red in their tanks, but given that the UK lost its legal case for allowing it in leisure boats, those other countries may take a dim view of this practice too before long.

  7. #117
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    River Dart
    Posts
    1,523

    Default Re: HMRC consultation on Red Diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by AngusMcDoon View Post
    The reason for wanting white diesel by the waterside is so those whose idea of fun is sailing to Belgium don't run the risk of a hefty fine on arrival. For sailing boats, as in the far flung bits of Scotland, the cost saving of red over white is pretty immaterial, it's availability that matters.

    Other EU countries have overlooked UK visiting boats turning up with red in their tanks, but given that the UK lost its legal case for allowing it in leisure boats, those other countries may take a dim view of this practice too before long.
    I can understand that point of view and sympathise. However, the reason all this hassle about red diesel happened in the first place is due to the EU deciding that marked fuel in leisure craft should be verboten. The UK government weren’t bothered about that and would have left us alone, as they knew that the cost of infrastructure changes would exceed the revenue gained.

    Regardless of how anyone voted in the referendum, if we’re now to be an independent 3rd country, then I can’t see why the Belgians, or any other EU state, would need to get worked up about us entering their territory temporarily with vessels that comply with independent UK requirements. For example, EU vessels can carry flare guns legally, as far as I am aware. When they visit the UK, no-one boards them and confiscates their flare guns or makes a fuss, as long as the flare guns remain on board. The UK authorities would take issue if a German skipper started walking around town brandishing their (illegal here) flare pistol, but they are a temporary visitor carrying a device on board which is legal in their own country, so no one bats an eyelid. Nor should they.

    Hey ho...

  8. #118
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    37,244

    Default Re: HMRC consultation on Red Diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by superheat6k View Post
    I am sure you are a taxman, a masochist, or just a bloody fool who does not understand the basic principle of taxation, and the right of the common man to object where unreasonable.

    WTF is this to do at all with the church BTW ?
    The church=HMRC in some circles.

    If you wanted to object to the principle of paying full duty on diesel for propulsion, you are 11 years too late.
    Plus Scotland seems very keen on all this EU stuff, take it up with Webby.

  9. #119
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    37,244

    Default Re: HMRC consultation on Red Diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by AngusMcDoon View Post
    The reason for wanting white diesel by the waterside is so those whose idea of fun is sailing to Belgium don't run the risk of a hefty fine on arrival. For sailing boats, as in the far flung bits of Scotland, the cost saving of red over white is pretty immaterial, it's availability that matters.

    Other EU countries have overlooked UK visiting boats turning up with red in their tanks, but given that the UK lost its legal case for allowing it in leisure boats, those other countries may take a dim view of this practice too before long.
    And also the issue that visiting craft from the EU need white fuel, or to be more exact, fuel free from the euromarker.
    Do you want Scotland to be open to visiting craft from Ireland or Mainland EU?

  10. #120
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    37,244

    Default Re: HMRC consultation on Red Diesel

    Quote Originally Posted by dgadee View Post
    Don't you understand it's not about what we pay. It's about being able to get fuel.
    You have had 11 years to think about this. What have you done about it?

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